APFA Constitutional Amendments

[jimntx]

Voting for a strike and actually striking are two different things. The vast majority will always for to strike. Like so many other things it is a barging tool.
There are physical tests, we always have routinely had to open a 767 door wit out the power. They do have to open a 737 and S08 door.

Oh, and what has happened in the past will always happen in the future? You know that for a fact? No wonder you left being a f/a. With those psychic powers you are destined for much greater things. When talking with the senior f/as who are still employed at AA, I don't hear any eagerness for strikes or a new contract, but then I'm sure you know better.

By physical tests I mean lifting, running, etc. There are people expressing concern to the FAA regarding the age and physical condition of f/as at ALL airlines.

Yet most of the people who run for office are those senior people. Where are the JR ones who should be involved and learning? where are the JR ones who claim they want to make a difference? Answer, they are whining about it on the plane on web boards and yahoo groups wondering why somebody else hasn't stepped up and done something.

Running for office is one thing. Doing something while not an officer is another. When I was based at DFW before I was furloughed, a newhire classmate of mine and I attended the base meetings almost every month when we were not flying on that day. Most months, the attendance consisted of my classmate, me, the base chair and the base vice-chair, and maybe a couple of the committee chairs--like professional standards, and scheduling.

Most of the senior people who run for office just want to take vows in the Blessed Order of the Perpetually Trip-Removed. Get paid for not flying and sleep in your own bed each night. Oh yeah, major dedication to the betterment of the junior f/as. And, for your information, every time I tried to bring up junior issues with the union--at the base or national level--it was made clear to me that junior f/a issues were of no importance or priority. Protecting the right of the senior f/as to never have to actually fly is paramount with the BOPT-R.

 

[nbmcg01]

I voted yes on all issues except #2 about reducing the size of the negotiating committee. I don't like the idea of 2/3 of the negotiators being appointed and not elected.

As far as item #4 goes, although I don't like the idea of Military reserves having to pay dues while not active, I voted in favor of this issue. The fact that those former TWA radicals came out with a letter stating that they would SCAB and coerce their fellow TWA'ers to SCAB if we went on strike made me vote for this item. I don't trust them to be included in this forth coming strike vote. It is a shame that the language for this item included ALL members on unpaid status, however this can be changed in the future. The important thing for me now is to protect myself against those on furlough who have the power to affect any vote.

LOL! Great mentality... Obviously you have not read the letter. You are putting words where there were suggestions or possibilities and no active or recently furloughed are involved. This was done for a reason yet you cannot see past your own fears. As usual knee jerk reaction will oversee pure and simple logic. Again, lol. (obviously you're not in jeopardy of being in this position. You just tighten the noose)

 

[jersey777]

LOL! Great mentality... Obviously you have not read the letter. You are putting words where there were suggestions or possibilities and no active or recently furloughed are involved. This was done for a reason yet you cannot see past your own fears. As usual knee jerk reaction will oversee pure and simple logic. Again, lol. (obviously you're not in jeopardy of being in this position. You just tighten the noose)

Suggestions or possibilities? What are you eating crow? Believe me this is not a knee jerk reaction. It has been inferred by you and others that the TWA flight attendants would be a bloc vote. I don't want them to lower our strike vote numbers and show the company we are not unified. Like Mikey said on here....the strike vote is the union flexing its muscle and is a sign to the company of our resolve. If we get 1200 TWA no votes then how does that make us look? Sorry, but you made you bed and now you have to lie in it.

 

[nbmcg01]

LOL! Great mentality... Obviously you have not read the letter. You are putting words where there were suggestions or possibilities and no active or recently furloughed are involved. This was done for a reason yet you cannot see past your own fears. As usual knee jerk reaction will oversee pure and simple logic. Again, lol. (obviously you're not in jeopardy of being in this position. You just tighten the noose)

You will get the votes this union deserves one way or another.. And that is a promise. No one can control how one votes in private. It will be up to the individual to vote whether they will put their career on the line in this economy. I don't envy anyone that decision. Bloc vote? Never have I said anything about a bloc vote in this issue. Isn't it sad that you all are concerned about 600-800 votes out of 16000 potential votes. Now that speaks volumes. If you cannot get the membership to vote on such an important issue what will happen when you are asked to walk off a flight and Flight Service mangt. says, "If you do you will be terminated for insubordination". Of course IF the APFA is able to negotiate a back to work agreement for those terminated, you'll get your job back. Who is going to pay the bills in the interim? The APFA? Just curious.

And soon this won't be a "former TWA" issue. The furloughs keep coming and there is no more cushion. How many do you think will jump to support a union that has never supported them?

 

[jimntx]

If we get 1200 TWA no votes then how does that make us look?

if you get several thousand NO votes from f/as whose employee numbers do NOT start with a 6 (former TW), how do you think that makes you look? I'm a nAAtive. I have yet to see anything that would lead me to believe that a strike or even a strike vote would benefit me. Well, other than a pat on the head from the more senior f/as who will then tell me that I can go under the bus voluntarily or I will be thrown under.

As I said, I have talked with a number of senior f/as who have no intention of voting for a strike or even care if we get a new contract anytime soon. I also know a number of junior f/as who will vote NO on a strike for no other reason that the current union wants a YES vote, and has ignored our requests for help on multiple occasions.

 

[damajagua]

jersey, so you think our Military Reserves who are protecting you and all the rest of of us should pay dues??? Should they repay these dues??? I say HELL NO!!!!

I say you need a reality check. I have friends serving and risking their lives and I would NOT ask them for one red cent. Res:8 is very very wrong. If I am on a IOD through no fault of my own and who knows how long that will be. You want them to pay back dues????? Do you have a heart??? Forget the TWA vote.

Anyone that is serving in the military is doing so because they volunteer. Beside they are getting a salary while doing it. Why should they be exempt.........I totally agree they should pay.
Plain and simple if you want the right to vote you must pay union dues..............

 

[butchord45]

Anyone that is serving in the military is doing so because they volunteer. Beside they are getting a salary while doing it. Why should they be exempt.........I totally agree they should pay.
Plain and simple if you want the right to vote you must pay union dues..............

that is not what the resolution does....and that is not what people are opposed to dama!! Read the whole resolution and really read it . Everyone agrees no dues no vote. But when you don't let them vote and then collect money from them later that is WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!! N....FFREAKING O!!!!! :down:

 

[L1011Ret]

that is not what the resolution does....and that is not what people are opposed to dama!! Read the whole resolution and really read it . Everyone agrees no dues no vote. But when you don't let them vote and then collect money from them later that is WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!! N....FFREAKING O!!!!! :down:

Agreed 1000%.

 

[FA Mikey]

Oh, and what has happened in the past will always happen in the future? You know that for a fact? No wonder you left being a f/a. With those psychic powers you are destined for much greater things. When talking with the senior f/as who are still employed at AA, I don't hear any eagerness for strikes or a new contract, but then I'm sure you know better.

I know what has happened for the last 20 plus years and yes when the strike vote comes out 95% plus, of the votes will be for a strike authorization.

By physical tests I mean lifting, running, etc. There are people expressing concern to the FAA regarding the age and physical condition of f/as at ALL airlines.

But what you said was lifting a door with no power. You didnt mention the running test.

Running for office is one thing. Doing something while not an officer is another. When I was based at DFW before I was furloughed, a newhire classmate of mine and I attended the base meetings almost every month when we were not flying on that day. Most months, the attendance consisted of my classmate, me, the base chair and the base vice-chair, and maybe a couple of the committee chairs--like professional standards, and scheduling.

My point exactly not only do they not seek office they do not get involved on any level.

Most of the senior people who run for office just want to take vows in the Blessed Order of the Perpetually Trip-Removed. Get paid for not flying and sleep in your own bed each night. Oh yeah, major dedication to the betterment of the junior f/as. And, for your information, every time I tried to bring up junior issues with the union--at the base or national level--it was made clear to me that junior f/a issues were of no importance or priority. Protecting the right of the senior f/as to never have to actually fly is paramount with the BOPT-R.

If thats true and you just stopped, then why continue to bring it up. Nothing you say here will change a policy of priority of the union.

 

[jimntx]

I know what has happened for the last 20 plus years and yes when the strike vote comes out 95% plus, of the votes will be for a strike authorization.

And, once again, what has happened in the past is proof of what will always happen in the future? But, according to Jersey777, 95% is not good enough. It must be 100% (by denying the former TW f/as a vote), but it ain't gonna be because I'm not voting for a strike. Got nothing to gain from it.

But what you said was lifting a door with no power. You didnt mention the running test.

Oh, so since I only gave one example and didn't list every single possibility that physical test might encompass that makes it a bogus post? Perhaps I should have also mentioned medicine ball posting, chin-ups, pushups, and standing on one leg for 1 minute.

My point exactly not only do they not seek office they do not get involved on any level.

Nothing like twisting what I said. I was pointing out that out of 5000+ f/as (at that time) based in DFW-D, there were only two junior f/as who attended base meetings other than the officers and a few (not all) of the committee chairs.

If thats true and you just stopped, then why continue to bring it up. Nothing you say here will change a policy of priority of the union.

Don't like what I post? Use the ignore feature. It's what I intend to do with your posts. You obviously are like the others...that senior f/as are like the Virgin Mary--without sin or error, and junior f/as are there to be furlough fodder. Have a nice life.

 

[jersey777]

Running for office is one thing. Doing something while not an officer is another. When I was based at DFW before I was furloughed, a newhire classmate of mine and I attended the base meetings almost every month when we were not flying on that day. Most months, the attendance consisted of my classmate, me, the base chair and the base vice-chair, and maybe a couple of the committee chairs--like professional standards, and scheduling.

I would love to talk to Chris O'Kelley and ask him about a junior guy that used to come to the base meetings and do nothing but moan and complain. I bet I would get an earful.

 

[nbmcg01]

I would love to talk to Chris O'Kelley and ask him about a junior guy that used to come to the base meetings and do nothing but moan and complain. I bet I would get an earful.

At least he showed up and he votes.... For Chris I'm sure it is much easier when no one challenges and blindly follows. Its the APFA way...

 

[FA Mikey]

And, once again, what has happened in the past is proof of what will always happen in the future? But, according to Jersey777, 95% is not good enough. It must be 100% (by denying the former TW f/as a vote), but it ain't gonna be because I'm not voting for a strike. Got nothing to gain from it.

A strike vote is nothing more than a bargingtool used to influence the media and get the word out about a pending job action. Its a great way to show you will do what ever it takes to get a decent contract. Voting No shows the company and everyone else you are wak and will likely settle for what ever crumbs they throw you.

Oh, so since I only gave one example and didn't list every single possibility that physical test might encompass that makes it a bogus post? Perhaps I should have also mentioned medicine ball posting, chin-ups, pushups, and standing on one leg for 1 minute.

NO you mentioned only one test and that was the opening the door with out the power assist. now you think there shoud be a running test for FA's as well. As for the door weak or injured the first people to arrive at a door will likely be the most able and very willing to assist in helping to push it up in to the ceiling.

Don't like what I post? Use the ignore feature. It's what I intend to do with your posts. You obviously are like the others...that senior f/as are like the Virgin Mary--without sin or error, and junior f/as are there to be furlough fodder. Have a nice life.

I dont have a problem with you Jim. I have considered you a friend in the past and have shared several post about work and non work matters and even invited you out if you were ever in Miami. I am just not sure where al the venom is coming from. I am sorry you take posting on a silly board so personal. Best of luck to you Jim.

 

[Skymess]

if you get several thousand NO votes from f/as whose employee numbers do NOT start with a 6 (former TW), how do you think that makes you look? I'm a nAAtive. I have yet to see anything that would lead me to believe that a strike or even a strike vote would benefit me. Well, other than a pat on the head from the more senior f/as who will then tell me that I can go under the bus voluntarily or I will be thrown under.

As I said, I have talked with a number of senior f/as who have no intention of voting for a strike or even care if we get a new contract anytime soon. I also know a number of junior f/as who will vote NO on a strike for no other reason that the current union wants a YES vote, and has ignored our requests for help on multiple occasions.

The strike vote will pass but I don't think the dues obligation vote will. I think they made the dues obligation language confusing to some and undesirable to others. I also think the time of year it was sent out, and due back by, will cause a lot of people to not vote or to send their ballot in too late.

 

[boston]

The strike vote will pass but I don't think the dues obligation vote will. I think they made the dues obligation language confusing to some and undesirable to others. I also think the time of year it was sent out, and due back by, will cause a lot of people to not vote or to send their ballot in too late.

I called APFA to get more info regarding the changes we are voting on, regarding dues obligation, for those who are very upset about military leave being dues current( voluntary armry with a salery), there are 5 flight Attendants currently on military leave ,also this military leave/language was won in the 2001 contract. If you want the same rights and privilages of working dues paying APFA flight Attendants you will need to set up a payment method and be current to vote. If you wish not to vote when you return you will need to set up a payment plan when you return and will have up 2 years to pay it off. All working dues paying FA/s are paying for all non working f/a's-not just furlouged, all grievnces ect and they pay nothing.

All types of voluntary and involuntary absences are included.

St. Luis APFA base and vice chair on furlough earning a salery do not pay APFA dues

The company APFA is looking at for electronic balliting has only re-done an election once in 9yrs, this would also eleminate the 2 f/as going out to the mailbox to collect the ballats,posatgae ect, we pay there trip removals as we pay for the non essential fa's on the nego team.

I also belive ther has been another DFR lawsuit filled against APFA recently.


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