APA getting a tad nervous?

[Jacobin777]

It seems obvious the AA would much rather be negotiating the next APA contract from the term sheet levels vs the LBO

APA Union took its chances...its called "risk and reward". They should have taken the LBO, I felt it was a good offer.

 

[eolesen]

Isn't there supposed to be a hearing today?..

 

[WorldTraveler]

The UCC has said, "no deal with the APA, no emergence"

NEW YORK – There has been debate about how important it was to have a new contract with the Allied Pilots Association before American Airlines and parent AMR exited Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings.
On Tuesday, attorney Jack Butler for the Unsecured Creditors Committee gave his opinion – the airline must have a deal before exiting bankruptcy.
“Let there be no mistake” that AMR has to have a contract with pilots, Butler told U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Sean Lane.
“The committee is going to require that before there is any reorganization,” Butler said. “There has to be a deal.”

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/

 

[Super FLUF]

APA Union took its chances...its called "risk and reward". They should have taken the LBO, I felt it was a good offer.

So glad YOU felt it was a good offer.

Wondering how you thought it was a good offer when many of the major sections were left blank or had a nebulous sentence covering a complex topic that had in the past covered several pages.

I've always wondered what kind of bone head signs a contract without even knowing what's in it. Now I know.

Enjoy the blank check of a contract you just handed over to AMR. I know they will.

 

[Mach85ER]

An answer from CFO Bev Goulet while on the stand heard from a pilot in the courtroom:

'Goulet: I didn't spend any time prepping for this... I believe we are running modestly ahead, but want to verify that'

Now that is truly impressive. I remember years of watching Crandall and Baker slice, dice and dismantle anyone trying to catch them off guard during Q&A sessions. never once did hear the 'dog ate my homework; defense.

Nice work Bev. You walk into a Federal Bankruptcy Court unprepared, and the Judge's extension was what, almost 3 weeks ago?

Somebody get on the line to PHX. (It will probably be busy with a LHR call)

 

[BoeingBoy]

“Let there be no mistake” that AMR has to have a contract with pilots, Butler told U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Sean Lane.
“The committee is going to require that before there is any reorganization,” Butler said. “There has to be a deal.”

Don't get too excited yer - abrogation results in "a contract with pilots" just as much as agreeing to an LBO does.

Jim

 

[Mach85ER]

Not really Jim. AA can implement terms.

There is no term specification as in the LBO. Negotiations will continue.

 

[Jacobin777]

So glad YOU felt it was a good offer.

Wondering how you thought it was a good offer when many of the major sections were left blank or had a nebulous sentence covering a complex topic that had in the past covered several pages.

I've always wondered what kind of bone head signs a contract without even knowing what's in it. Now I know.

Enjoy the blank check of a contract you just handed over to AMR. I know they will.

A number of analysts, independent and non-independent felt it was a good offer. Of course, the finalities could have been ironed out. The general LFBO was quite good however-especially when compared to what was offered to other pilots during the other carrier BK's.

 

[Super FLUF]

The only ones that felt it was a "good deal" were

1. The company
2. Lazard, who would have profited handsomely by us slitting our own throat
3. The weak Richards in ORD and DFW

There is more to a 200 page contract than the pay rate page and some "equity stake" that could have been diluted 4 ways.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Not really Jim. AA can implement terms.

There is no term specification as in the LBO. Negotiations will continue.

Yes, management can implement changes up to those in the original term sheet, it doesn't have to implement everything in the term sheet. But it now has the authority to implement the entire term sheet if it wants. APA and the pilots passed on their chance to affect the outcome and are bystanders now.

Without looking it back up, I believe that the term sheet contains a term for the changes - 6 years comes to mind. Somehow I can't see management acting as if nothing happened in court today and just continuing to negotiate, effectively allowing the pilots to undo their negative vote on the LBO as well as putting future costs estimates needed for the POR at risk. I may well be wrong but if I were an AA pilot I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for management to return to the table.

Jim

 

[Hopeful]

I may well be wrong but if I were an AA pilot I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for management to return to the table.

Jim

I see people hanging on to the UCC's Butler comment about having a consenual deal to exit...
His opinion or fact?
Isn't this the same UCC who commented that the pilot LBFO was indeed the best offer? The cash stand closed? The best deal they are going to approve of?

Suppose AA stays in BK for 18 months, does anyone realize that from now til then what AA can impose on the pilots? They may impose what they see fit and it may be so deep that eventually they throw a bone back to the pilots for a "consensual" deal but the damage to the pilots will have been done and probably irreversible?


As with the TWU, and F/A's, the threats are no longer just threats. They are now reality.
We are in bankruptcy with our futures, let alone the company's, being determined by a judge and a UCC.

We can argue until the end of time whether AA really needed to file, but the reality is....WE ARE IN BANKRUPTCY.!

 

[Hopeful]

[background=rgb(255,255,255)].


[background=rgb(255,255,255)]http://aviationblog....ws.com/tag/apa/[/background] [/background]


[background=rgb(255,255,255)]Read the one about Creditors Comittee...Then read the paragraph that says UPDATE...It clarifies Mr. Butler's comments about having a consensual agrrement in place to exit BK......[/background]

[background=rgb(255,255,255)]UPDATE: [/background]

[background=rgb(255,255,255)][background=rgb(255,255,255)]We had a conversation with Butler after Tuesday’s hearing in which he elaborated on his courtroom comments. Let’s put it this way: Butler and the committee want a deal before exit, but he acknowledges that a company can have a plan of reorganization without new labor contracts in place.[/background][/background]​

From the same article by the same Butler....

Butler repeated that the creditors committee will not support any contract that gives pilots more value than the one they overwhelming rejected on Aug. 8.

 

[FWAAA]

One reason that AA needs to exit Ch 11 as soon as possible is that it probably can't order the 200 or so 70-88 seat Embraer and Bombardier RJs until the POR is confirmed. It's one thing to continue existing deliveries of earlier-ordered 737s and 77Ws, but a massive order of RJs (that the manufacturers have already said they expect) probably doesn't fly while AA is in bankruptcy.

Another reason for a speedy exit, of course, is that every month in Ch 11 costs another $25 million to $50 million or so in legal, accounting, advisor, investment bank, parasite, etc. fees.

 

[eolesen]

FWAAA, is it mandatory to have UCC signoff for the court to sign off on the POR? I know it is customary, but...

 

[Jacobin777]

The only ones that felt it was a "good deal" were

1. The company
2. Lazard, who would have profited handsomely by us slitting our own throat
3. The weak Richards in ORD and DFW

There is more to a 200 page contract than the pay rate page and some "equity stake" that could have been diluted 4 ways.

Accordingly, it ostensibly seems the UCC isn't willing to "give more" to the APA. Again, my position is that the small nuances could have been taken care of if the APA decided in favor of the large items mentioned. You stated they haven't been discussed yet and/or are a bit vague.

What do you want (or expect) from AA? A short summation would probably do.