Anyone know the acceptance rate for the recall?

[IORFA]

The base assignments list for the July recall only shows 70 names. There are 72 names on the list, but two of them have an X in the spot where their relative position (on the base assignment list) should be. I think that means that they accepted recall, but then changed their minds.

The original recall numbers were 266 for July and 100 for October according to the information I found on the APFA website. So, the acceptance rate is not all that high.

Just another guess on what the X means. Maybe they accepted recall, but couldn't pass medical and are still eligible to return later when they can pass medical. I have no idea, just a guess.

 

[Veritas]

The base assignments list for the July recall only shows 70 names. There are 72 names on the list, but two of them have an X in the spot where their relative position (on the base assignment list) should be. I think that means that they accepted recall, but then changed their minds.

The original recall numbers were 266 for July and 100 for October according to the information I found on the APFA website. So, the acceptance rate is not all that high.

My understanding was that the acceptance rates which I cited above were only for the 200 who were recalled as part of the agreement reached between AA and the APFA permitting the hiring of the 30 CM speakers; not those in the July group who received their recall notices and base assignments prior to the signing of that LOA.

Some of those who accepted the recall offer and went through training exercised the option to retire as soon as they were eligible to do so (first day back on the payroll). That may explain the X marks. The few who did not clear medical in time for the May and June training classes were offered spots in the August training classes. There may have been a couple of flight attendants whose earlier recall dates have similarly have been deferred to July.

 

[737823]

Some of those who accepted the recall offer and went through training exercised the option to retire as soon as they were eligible to do so (first day back on the payroll). That may explain the X marks. The few who did not clear medical in time for the May and June training classes were offered spots in the August training classes. There may have been a couple of flight attendants whose earlier recall dates have similarly have been deferred to July.

Just to make sure I understand correctly: FAs on furlough attend and the company pays for training so they can return to active status only to then retire? Sure sounds like union efficiency and productivity at its very best!

No wonder AA has all the problems they do. How does this benefit the APFA? The training department and flight service is "management" so it isn't creating work for APFA members besides the pay and per diem they accrue during training. Why would AA management agree to such a thing?

Josh

 

[Veritas]

Just to make sure I understand correctly: FAs on furlough attend and the company pays for training so they can return to active status only to then retire? Sure sounds like union efficiency and productivity at its very best!

No wonder AA has all the problems they do. How does this benefit the APFA? The training department and flight service is "management" so it isn't creating work for APFA members besides the pay and per diem they accrue during training. Why would AA management agree to such a thing?

Josh

Why do you assume that it the union who is demanding that they'd be back on the payroll before they can retire?

Most of those, correction, all those who are being forced to go through training in order to retire would have preferred to retire immediately upon receiving the recall notice and not have to spend four weeks training for a job at which they will never work. By the way, training pay for recalled employees is less than $10 an hour. New hires do not even receive that. There is no per diem.

The airline insists that, pursuant to Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA), only active employees can retire. According to AA, a flight attendant cannot be active without going through training. They are not considered active while in training. Is the airline trying to make it hard for them to retire? Couldn't they be put on the payroll for just one day at a position that does not require training?

The individuals affected were not quite fifty years old at the time of furlough. At AA, certain work groups can collect retirement benefits after turning 55; however, there a bridge to retirement which allows employees to quit at age fifty and start collecting benefits when they turn 55. The benefits in question are passes and medical insurance. Most of the flight attendants who are going through training in order to retire worked for American, as opposed to TWA, for less than two years and have little if any accrued towards actual pension benefits.

 

[IORFA]

Once again, someone spouting off at the mouth about something they know nothing about. All because this individual hates unions and thinks unions are responsible for anything he/she doesn't agree with. Time to grow up and act like an adult and ask questions before you talk and make yourself look like a donkey.

 

[care2purchasefood?]

Couldn't they be put on the payroll for just one day at a position that does not require training?

The problem is they can't hire them back for one day at a position that doesn't require training. First of all, every position requires training. Second, most departments have people on furlough and they would be called back first. I believe agents are still on furlough, obviously f/a's , pilots, baggage handlers and mx do to. Plus their pay rate would change and effect their retirement package. If they retire as a gate agent, they get the gate agent package and so on.

I wish that I could retire, but I still have 10 years to go and I will be gone!!!

 

[IORFA]

The problem is they can't hire them back for one day at a position that doesn't require training. First of all, every position requires training. Second, most departments have people on furlough and they would be called back first. I believe agents are still on furlough, obviously f/a's , pilots, baggage handlers and mx do to. Plus their pay rate would change and effect their retirement package. If they retire as a gate agent, they get the gate agent package and so on.

I wish that I could retire, but I still have 10 years to go and I will be gone!!!

Recently I have seen aa.com advertising for line mx in ORD, ramp positions in NY{pt} and agent positions around the system. Plus BOB has said that they have been hiring mx in NY. I would assume that high cost cities have been hiring for awhile. They have talked about TUL upgrading people. This is what is on AA.com today for the maintenance field

*Building Cleaner - TULE
US-OK-Tulsa
Job Posting:Aug 10, 2011-Requisition ID 1103039
Apply|Add to My Job Cart


*Plant Maintenance Mechanic - Plumber - TULE
US-OK-Tulsa
Job Posting:Aug 8, 2011-Requisition ID 1103019
Apply|Add to My Job Cart


*Maintenance Control Technician - TULE
US-OK-Tulsa
Job Posting:Aug 8, 2011-Requisition ID 1103004
Apply|Add to My Job Cart

 

[eolesen]

I agree it's a waste of resources and time. This came up once before, and I said they should put them on payroll for a day in a "light duty" position in flight ops or even on-board which doesn't require occupying a jumpseat on an airplane (which requires training), but I'm not sure if those are even offered anymore. But the union and company would need to actually talk in order to work out something like that...

 

[IORFA]

This conversation is mostly a red herring. The vast majority that accepted recall and attended training have stayed on the job and continued working. Why? Because they either LIKE the job or NEED the job. Josh just likes to complain and rant about everything. As if paying someone $9.50 and hour for a month is going to bankrupt AA, plus I am not exactly sure they get paid during recall training. Come on already! Does anyone REALLY know if they are paid during recall training? Mark? Anyone?

 

[Frank Szabo]

This conversation is mostly a red herring. The vast majority that accepted recall and attended training have stayed on the job and continued working. Why because the either LIKE the job or NEED the job. Josh just likes to complain and rant about everything. As if paying someone $9.50 and hour for a month is going to bankrupt AA. Come on already!

I'm beginning to wonder if this "Josh" character isn't simply a teen that found a different source of entertainment than most of his/her type. Most certainly, it's a spoiled rotten brat of any age that feels that way.

Probably a little nerd type that has to buy his/her friends.

 

[Deleted member 17588]

F/A's recalled from furlough ARE paid for training, as they should be. You're even treated like an adult and given your own hotel room! Believe me. I know. I've been through more recall and training programs at AMR than I ever could have imagined.

And Josh needs to get a life. Preferably one that's different and better than the one he's trying to have now. What a twerp. *sigh*

 

[Bob Owens]

Just to make sure I understand correctly: FAs on furlough attend and the company pays for training so they can return to active status only to then retire? Sure sounds like union efficiency and productivity at its very best!

No wonder AA has all the problems they do. How does this benefit the APFA? The training department and flight service is "management" so it isn't creating work for APFA members besides the pay and per diem they accrue during training. Why would AA management agree to such a thing?

Josh

Why shouldnt they pay? They determine what the training should be, if approved by the FAA.

The company pays for our training as well. We come to the job as fully licensed mechanics but the company sells their maintenance program to the Feds. The Feds either approve it or reject it. We have no say in what they sell to the FAA so if they determine that we need to attend extra training to get a buy off by the Feds why shouldnt they pay?

 

[Bob Owens]

Recently I have seen aa.com advertising for line mx in ORD, ramp positions in NY{pt} and agent positions around the system. Plus BOB has said that they have been hiring mx in NY. I would assume that high cost cities have been hiring for awhile. They have talked about TUL upgrading people. This is what is on AA.com today for the maintenance field

All the recalls and upgrades are done. On JetNet you can go to the Careers page, then click on Seniority Lists. then Click on Master Seniority list for TWU. Mechanics are Title I.
So far they have added around 321 Title I to the list this year, a large number of those appear to be replacements for the Title I OSMs, Cleaners and Parts Washers who upgraded. In NY they added around 45 this year not including those who were already in the Title Group. Systemwide they are barely keeping up with attrition which will likely spike after a deal is secured. We used to have around 14000 in Title I, now we have 9523. If the company gets their wish and wipes out the Prefunding those who want to keep it have to retire before the deal is ratified so the number could be very high. Anyone over 55 could go, my guess is probably around 3000 would be able. If the operations are a mess now imagine what it would be like then!

The longer this drags on the harder it will be for the company to find experienced mechanics, either way there will probably be a surge of retirees after we get our contract. Thats why the company lowered the experience requirement for Line Maintenance to ZERO (when I was hired five years of Heavy Turbine Experience was required now they can come straight from A&P school to work your flight). Delta and UAL are burning though their recall lists as well and outfits like Jet Blue, Air Tran and SWA, the kind of operations that the Majors used to get their mechanics from, pay more.

 

[eolesen]

Why shouldnt they pay? They determine what the training should be, if approved by the FAA.

The company pays for our training as well. We come to the job as fully licensed mechanics but the company sells their maintenance program to the Feds. The Feds either approve it or reject it. We have no say in what they sell to the FAA so if they determine that we need to attend extra training to get a buy off by the Feds why shouldnt they pay?

Huge differences, Bob. The company is training you on the AA GPM. But you got everything you needed for your license on your dime, no?

AFAIK, there is no way for a prospective flight attendant to get training from an outside source which meets the FAA's requirements for AA's EPT, or the training necessary for service delivery.

 

[jimntx]

AFAIK, there is no way for a prospective flight attendant to get training from an outside source which meets the FAA's requirements for AA's EPT, or the training necessary for service delivery.

Absolutely correct. One of the biggest ripoffs in the U.S. today is the "proprietary" schools that advertise that they can train you to be a flight attendant--for a price, of course. The training is useless because each airline has its own FAA-approved training course that can not be waived in order to bring onboard a new flight attendant. Ask the hundreds (thousands?) of AA flight attendants who worked for Braniff, Pan Am, or Eastern with many years of flight attendant experience. Each and every one of them had to go through the unpaid newhire training at AA in order to be an AA flight attendant.

Bob, think about it. Yes, we fly 737s as does WN. However, the configuration of the a/c cabins--including the location of safety equipment and the galley configurations--are different. Real different. For instance, a number of our 737s are equipped with life rafts; so, that they can be used in International service as well as domestic service. Not so (at least, not yet) with WN.

P.S. Initial training is unpaid because you are not a company employee until you successfully complete the f/a training course. Hotel and meals (at the training academy) are provided during training, but that's it. And, there's no point in getting your knickers in a twist about whether or not that is fair. AFAIK, all airlines do it that way. It was made clear to me when I interviewed that if selected, the training is unpaid, and that I would not be eligible for any company benefits unless I successfuly completed the training AND went on the company payroll. I also interviewed with Continental, United, Delta, and US Airways. They all told me exactly the same thing. I may be remembering incorrectly, but I think one of those told me that I would not even have my hotel and meals provided during training.