Anyone Care To Guess ?

[Light Years]

Kev-

I wish US would be the one to stand up and say enough. Put an end to this "affiliate" and whipsawing crap all together. US Airways plane, US Airways seniority list. Doesnt matter who makes it or how many seats it has. They want concessions? Do that and then we'll talk. If not, go make a virtual airline somewhere else. US is in a unique position to do this as they are already such a regionalized airline and the advent of MAA and the Ejets are blurring the line even more than at other carriers. I suspect the rest of the industry would follow and we'd all be in a better place. If we dont do it, one of them will, maybe AA/AE.

 

[i97]

how much longer before the company self destructs?

The self destruction of US Airways began a long time ago. In fact their troubles have never been very far behind them.

This company has faced many self created crises, at any given time since the 90's began; some even say that like many other previously demised carriers, this path actually started in the 80's. The 90's were on again, off again for US Air at best.

Looking back, anyone in their right mind can spot the failures. Yes hindsight is 20-20, but it is also fresh in many memories of the warnings and advice the workers gave the powers that be against mistakes before they were made and while they were being made.

This became the battle cry during the first rounds of concessions, "it's not our fault" and many variations, especially from the groups that were unprotected by a contract in the 90's when US raped them. Like it or not hey have only themselves to blame for the choice of no representation.

But, the truth is the workers are correct they are not the reason for the problems that dog the carrier today. Regardless, somebody has to pay for it, and management has determined that the workers will.
The workers rightfully think otherwise.

NONE of US Airways troubles can be blamed upon the workers. Anyone who says different, including those that would point fingers at a worker's Union Contract, but not single out the lavish lifestyles and contracts of its top management are only lying to themselves. Please, do not justify their contracts with supporting statements that indicate that they are ceo's, educated, whatever, etc. and deserve (d) these type of packages. If they were delivering the goods, then I would agree with you. They didn't, so they shouldn't. Most, since the merger should have been at one point or another, treated like any other worker would have making similar failures...FIRED.

Enter 9-11 and the failures become magnified, and no longer are they pushed to the back like they were able to do in a strong economy, and now management, like many others have the excuse they've been looking for. Now the same failures, or similar at least, that claimed all of the big, glamorous carriers that the Piedmonts, PSA's & US Air's were trying to be, became more and more visible. Those carriers began their self destruction long before it actually happened as well.

I read these boards often and rarely if ever, post. I expect among those that normally participate to discredit my remarks and or add to them, etc. Without trying to take a stance of irreproachability, anyone who believes otherwise, although entitled to your opinion, is sadly mistaken, uniformed, have not actually lived it, or a member of management themselves.
As such I will not play the game where you post, then I reply, then you post, etc.
I do believe you are entitled to differ, I have left my thoughts and will not justify them further.

I do want to leave with a simple suggestion. If you want to read about what is really going on the airline industry today, and where and how it all started, I suggest you find the following book. If you have been in the industry for more than 20 years, the similarities are uncanny. You’ll even recognize some of the names in the book.

Hard Landing:
The Epic Contest for Power and Profits That Plunged the Airlines into Chaos
by Jr. Thomas Petzinger

Fueled by the big egos of their respective bosses, the major airlines fell into a financial abyss trying to serve the maximum number of passengers and destinations, only to face rising fuel, labor, and operating costs as well as rising debt.

Read a review:
http://www.bookfinder.us/review1/0812928350.html

Find it, buy it, read it.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Management is a curious phenomenon. It is generously paid, enormously influential, and significantly devoid of common sense."
-Henry Mintzberg, Harvard Business Review, 1996

BTW, that little blurb is on Tom Petzinger website http://www.petzinger.com/. He resides in the Shady Side section of Pittsburgh.

 

[deltawatch]

I think Usairways will be finished shortly after November 2004. 1/3 going to United, 1/3 going to Virgin, and 1/3 going to the desert.

Bronner will move his investment to Brannson's Virgin. Dave will work for United for a few years.

 

[RATBOY]

The last time old man Bush was in office, he had a friend named Frank,who bought an( east coast airline) called Eastern.
Frank created an airline within an airline.(to transfer assset from one to another without paying for them). And while he was Raiding,Stealing and Cherry Picking their routes and planes,he was also selling their assets.
He took them through bankrupty,threw out their pention plan,and blamed labor, and high cost, for all their problems.
When everything was "Said" and "Done",the only thing left, after the dust settled, was a Dead and Dried out Shell, of a once Proud Airline.
Does Dave's Business Plan,( the plan that no one has seen,or hear of) sound familiar,looks like he reading from the same book.
Once again Labor,(no concessions,within the time frame,that dave"s demanding)will be the reason, why another Proud Airline Bite"s the Dust !!.
We are all looking for ways to save our airlines, Dave is realy just looking for a way to Bust Labor, and to take care of the People that take care of Him.
I'll be Moving Forward with my plans,and they don"t include Usairways.
Nothing Personal, Just Business!!.

 

[delldude]

too many contracts negotiated in the 'good old days'....without the present cutrate business environment.
legacy has had the chair knocked out from under them if you will.
the credit rating has been lowered...so there goes the first dominoe....stand by for more....
alpa hardliners on negotiations should cause davey lots of stress...there goes another dominoe....
IAm?CWA? click...click...two more dominoes.....
time to hire humpty dumpty...he can do it right........

 

[firstamendment]

The self destruction of US Airways began a long time ago. In fact their troubles have never been very far behind them.

Hey guys, I'm back. I gave myself a raise by moving from NYC to Charlotte. It's going well. Just never use Olympic Van Moving. They suck. I have skimmed the forums and see that not much has changed, but a new life in a new city has me looking at things and I decided to put some painful ideas out there that I think could work. I DO intend to get nasty responses. Just don't be too harsh on me. It's been a rough 2 weeks with this move but still happy to have made it. I am also mindful of contract negotiations, the need to preserve jobs...all the things we have gone over too many times. These are just MY ideas and thought.



I agree with you here, but I would just like to say that I feel there is plenty of blame to go around. When PI was bought by U, the f/a's at PI were excited that we had a better contract. Now here we are 15 years later and pretty close to the old PI contract.

Now I just want to point out that I, like most of the employees who benefited, had NO problem accepting a more expensive contract that was unproductive...remember 1 for 3 duty rigs where 3 day trips were worth 21 hours and you worked 15-17? I do remember how in the back of my mind I questioned the cost of this plus the hiring of mechanics to push back a/c and our own utility at much higher wages, but I, again like most, didn't care.

I 100% agree that management is the majority ruler in the dying US Airways that we know today, but let us NOT forget that it was trying to PLEASE all the labor groups during the mergers of the 80's that started the bleeding. Argue all you want with me, I was on the receiving end of a good contract. Bring in those that benefited from a freshly packed, dominating, non competitve USAir workforce of the early 80's and you have a huge conflict as so many watched these mergers squash the wonderful way of life they were accustomed to.

When everyone starts pointing at management as ALL at fault ALL the time, just remember that merger blunders aside, there was a huge effort to make sure that pay/benefit wise, all were happy. They had to. Half their employees would have made subpar wages. So where is it that management screwed up? Oh I know all the mirror image stuff, but higher wages means higher cost, period.

I am not arguing the case against superior wages or in any way trying to paint any management team of US Airways as particularly overfriendly but to me the biggest blunder of the money bleeding US was trying to keep the peace of a defiant Piedmont group of employees AND customer who loathed US Airways and made life hell for them the minute the announcement was made...and please ex- PI guys, this is just MY opinion as a former PI employee and my experience during this time, so don't get all nasty on me.

So yes, we are all to blame and there are many would have, should haves to go around, but the bottom line is that at this very moment this company is in danger of going under and the choices seem to me as pretty cut and dry:

1. Take a heartfilled "Norma Rae" stand against concession III and watch the company continue to shrink until nothing is left, laying off the remaing 25,000 jobs.

or

2. Take it on the chin AGAIN, and hope that management lives up to their plan, AND that the plan will actually work, which may or may not mean growing the airline, eventually bring back employees.

Sorry guys, I just don't see a compromise. This isn't fear based, just the reality of the industry. It took many years, but the LCC's have gotten it right. They may have lowered the bar on food, but they have upped the bar on price, ease of purchase and the ability to go where people want to go. Isn't that what deregulation was put in play for?

The true colors of the flying public are showing and it is showing on the balance sheet. It's time to go with what the public is demanding. Sorry biz travelers, you are no longer King and the more we continue to appease a loosing segment of our industry, the longer the red ink will flow. I know all the arguements of all the supposed bread and butter base of revenue, but that butter has gone sour and the bread is moldy.

Solutions?

* Four Level Pricing Scale
AM Peak
PM Peak
Off Peak
Redeye

* Frequent flyer program segmented. Ten round trips equal a free ticket. No more, no less. If there is a seat on the flight and time to go one month in advance, it's yours. Keep current miles system until deleted .

* No levels of FFP. Thank you for your loyalty, but you fly who get's you there the quickest for convenience of time. The ten roundtrip segment will reward you nicely. It's about earning free tickets, NOT collecting them to throw in the face of the front line how many miles you have. I promise you most get that free cup of coffee after ten trips to your coffee shop. They will do the same here.

* Keep the clubs. Lower the price so all FF's can afford or ability of FF to purchase as per use of club. Add or select space for dressed message and manicures and lease out the space to said and have them charge nomimal fee.

* Transcon First Class (A321) and International First and Biz (A330 and 767) traditional only.

* Eight seats in all a/c, with no charge. Seats for most loyal customers. No ammenities, just space.

* Lower capacity enough on the other aircraft to make all coach seating comfortable.

* Inflight Entertainment system on par with JB. Sorry guys, the public wants this more than food, and all the "things" legacy carriers seem to think they want. Include the price on the ticket so there is no charge on the aircraft.

* All inflight meals ordered on computer. If co. screws up and order isn't there, vouchers should be onboard for f/a's to give for customer.

* Increase hub to hub frequency.

* Extend the connection times and add frequency out of hubs to high capacity cities, creating less stress for customers.

* Roll those hubs.

* Add CLT- MAN, CDG, FCO, MAD to ease congestion in PHL.

* Eventually go to all airbus fleet for narrowbody and boeing for widebody, 777, 7E7, or 767-400LR

Now this will get the dirty notes flying.

* Management to make same as JB/LUV, including CEO and Chairman of Board plus 10% cut for five years.

* 10% paycut for all employees for 5 years. Ten percent has equal pain, regardless of salary amt.

* Close res centers...res done at home. Lower number of res agents..sorry guys.

* No more inhouse utility. Never made sense in the first place. Out source this sucker like most have done for years.

* Take what would be layed off utility and put them in positions of pushback operators. The wage would be more on par with the competition.

*Open up hangers closed..if possible..and keep our own maint. and begin US Airways Maintenance Center (perhaps sweetheart deal with IND), providing work for other carriers from all over the world. This would be a division of US Airways Group, with those in this division making the same as the competing companies we outsource to. This division would be ran and managed by mechanics, with a VP (a mechanic) answering to upper management. Mechanics will make it profitable in two years with the ability for the mechanics in this division to receive bonuses if profitable. If not, pull the plug and the company will be allowed to outsource as planned. It's you guys chance to put your money where your mouth is.

* Better scheduling to eliminate sit time.

* F/a's break off from pilots, making bases more flexible.

* NO ITD fence.

These are for image:

* Sponsor for new uniforms who will modernize our look. In exchange, free publicities on seat trays and inflight magazine. Get rid of those 18 yo uniforms.

* Sponsor for inflight snacks with same advertising. Done on three month cycle.

* A/C tail advertisement. Would provide needed revenue to pay for inflight entertainment and new modern inflight lighting. Limit of 20 a/c to start.

* Sidewall lights multi color to add some color to those gray interiors. Done right and it would be sharpe and set us apart.

Awards for employees.

1 complimentary letter = $25
5 complimentary letters = pay egual to one day off (pilots and f/a's) or day off paid
6 straight months with best on time of majors = $25 each employee
6 straight months with best on time of all = $50 each employee
1 year best on time of majors = $100 each employee
1 year best ontime of all = $150 each employee

Top complimentary letter employee per month wins a car..again, sponsored by pool of car dealers or car companies with, yes, advertsing.

*Bring back the booklets for the f/a's to offer items for those customers who need pampering for legitimate complaints.


Well, guys, I can type no more...just ideas. Just trying to provide solutions instead of complaining. Any other ideas?

 

[MrAeroMan]

Hey guys, I'm back. I gave myself a raise by moving from NYC to Charlotte. It's going well.

Welcome to CLT!

 

[firstamendment]

Welcome to CLT!

Thanks, it's nice to be back in NC. You know you have lived in NYC too long when you asked your sister if the car you bought takes leaded or unleaded. Also, those super stores are amazing and could the buggies be any bigger. I've seen smaller Manhattan apts.

Only one complaint: When will I-77 be finished? :angry:

 

[Benz M-100]

Wow First, that's quite a list.

I like almost all of these ideas, especially the reorg of maintenance.

Unfortunately, each of your ideas contains something for affected people to dislike...EG I'll bet Piney would not be too fond of your FF program.

To any reasonable person, much or all of this seems do-able. The BIG problem is that the Crystal Palace folks will reject these ideas because of NIH--not invented here!

That's why, IMHO the 3 (or is it up to 4 now?) employee suggestion programs amounted to almost nothing and it is the main reason the I personally have little optimism for the future.

 

[jimntx]

* 10% paycut for all employees for 5 years. Ten percent has equal pain, regardless of salary amt.

This is the only point I disagree with. 10% of $200,000/yr does NOT have the same effect on the employee and family as 10% of $20,000/yr. A person making $20,000/yr is probably existing paycheck to paycheck with no "cushion" for emergencies.

Now, I agree that the $200k employee may also be living paycheck to paycheck, but in this case it's not economic, it's stupidity.

 

[Benz M-100]

I agree with Jim.

There should be an income "floor" below which there is no paycut.

 

[aerosmith]

Now thats a plan 1st to bad Dave can't seem to come up with one!

 

[firstamendment]

This is the only point I disagree with. 10% of $200,000/yr does NOT have the same effect on the employee and family as 10% of $20,000/yr. A person making $20,000/yr is probably existing paycheck to paycheck with no "cushion" for emergencies.

Now, I agree that the $200k employee may also be living paycheck to paycheck, but in this case it's not economic, it's stupidity.

Good point. Floor set at $25,000. Am I hired?

 

[Benz M-100]

You've got my vote, First!