Any Word On 757s?....
- Thread starter USAirBoyA330
- Start date
RowUnderDCA
Veteran
- Oct 6, 2002
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I agree. I'll be sad to see the shuttle pitch go away. UAL's approach always seemed to me to be the smartest. I think they have one fewer row of first, but several rows of Economy plus. Also, won't the reconfigured shuttle aircraft increase boarding and de-planing time?deelmakur said:
MarkMyWords
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,900
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ISP -
The 767 holds 203 customers, and has the same first class seating capacity as the 757 - 24 seats. It has the same problem with first class bookings as the 757 does, the demand for the 24 seats just isn't there. The same holds true for the A330 that flies PHL-SJU. The demand for the envoy seats just isn't there, but the demand for the coach seating is there.
Deelmaker -
The ex-shuttle A320's will be reconfigured from seating 150 in an all coach configuration to 16 first class and 126 coach for a total of 142 seats. If there was going to be any adjustment to the coach seat pitch it would be extremely minimal at best.
Tom -
Aircraft utilization rates would be about the same as they are today. When they reconfigured the CLT hub to be a multidirectional hub, this increased FL service out of CLT. We now have CLT to FL flights nearly every 2 hours and many of the planes get to FL and turn to PHL or PIT. The PIT and PHL airplanes generally turn to CLT. These airplanes would be continually flying back and forth to FL and we would elminate the the BWI, BOS and LGA turns and those would most likely go to the A321 or A320 aircraft that would be pulled out of the Florida markets, thus giving you the f/c seats on those routes that you desire.
As for the ex-shuttle aircraft showing up unexpectedly on routes that they are not normally scheduled for, that is an operational issue and has more to do with available resources. If there is a mechanical on a regular A320 and a Shuttle 320 is available, we will utilize that aircraft versus canceling the flight. All attempts are made to keep those airplanes flying in there assigned routes, but occassionally it is necessary to substitute those airplanes to maintain schedule integrity. I am sure you would agree that it is better to have an airplane with no first class then it is to cancel a flight.
Rowunder -
This change should have no effect on the time it takes to board the airplane. You will have 8 less customers to board.
:blink:
The 767 holds 203 customers, and has the same first class seating capacity as the 757 - 24 seats. It has the same problem with first class bookings as the 757 does, the demand for the 24 seats just isn't there. The same holds true for the A330 that flies PHL-SJU. The demand for the envoy seats just isn't there, but the demand for the coach seating is there.
Deelmaker -
The ex-shuttle A320's will be reconfigured from seating 150 in an all coach configuration to 16 first class and 126 coach for a total of 142 seats. If there was going to be any adjustment to the coach seat pitch it would be extremely minimal at best.
Tom -
Aircraft utilization rates would be about the same as they are today. When they reconfigured the CLT hub to be a multidirectional hub, this increased FL service out of CLT. We now have CLT to FL flights nearly every 2 hours and many of the planes get to FL and turn to PHL or PIT. The PIT and PHL airplanes generally turn to CLT. These airplanes would be continually flying back and forth to FL and we would elminate the the BWI, BOS and LGA turns and those would most likely go to the A321 or A320 aircraft that would be pulled out of the Florida markets, thus giving you the f/c seats on those routes that you desire.
As for the ex-shuttle aircraft showing up unexpectedly on routes that they are not normally scheduled for, that is an operational issue and has more to do with available resources. If there is a mechanical on a regular A320 and a Shuttle 320 is available, we will utilize that aircraft versus canceling the flight. All attempts are made to keep those airplanes flying in there assigned routes, but occassionally it is necessary to substitute those airplanes to maintain schedule integrity. I am sure you would agree that it is better to have an airplane with no first class then it is to cancel a flight.
Rowunder -
This change should have no effect on the time it takes to board the airplane. You will have 8 less customers to board.
:blink:
Mark, even if the pitch doesn't change on those few shuttle planes, flying one will be a chance event. My point, and I know you get it, is they just cram too many people into too small a space. I do a lot of work in the broadcast industry. Those guys know they can always add more commercials each hour (and make more money, as a result). They have also learned that doing so reduces audience, which defeats the purpose. It's the same idea. Interestingly, those same guys have learned to make money with perishable inventory (if you don't sell it today, it's gone), customers who only want to use them at busy times, and crazy competitors, who don't hold price. Sound familiar?
Mark, I have to disagree that the seat pitch change would be minimal. From the USAirways web site, Shuttle 320's have 33"-34" pitch while the 320's w/1st have 31"-33" pitch. So it is possible that you could lose 3 inches, which while cramped in coach is not minimal.
MarkMyWords
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,900
- 1
Deelmakur -
We are adding coach seats, taking out first class seats, but we are not changing the seat pitch of the coach cabin. We are utilizing our resources better by matching supply and demand. These ex-shuttle A320's will be flying regular mainline routes to the Caribbean, West Coast or business centers around up and down the east coast. There will no longer be a dedicated fleet to just the shuttle flying. All A320's will be configured to 16/126, all A319's will be configured to 12/108, etc. Our standard seat pitch, averaging 33", will remain the same. I owuld agree with your assessment if we were hap hazardly adding seating capacity and reducing the seat pitch, but that is not what is happening.
Hope -
Seat pitch change will be minimal. The seat configuration will be the same as all of the other A320's that we are flying. Average seat pitch on all of our AirBus a/c is 33". The coach seat pitch on the 757 aircraft will also remain the same.
mbmbbost -
I couldn't agree more we need to bring back the days that you could purchase an upgrade for 20-40-60.00 over a full coach fare ticket.
We are adding coach seats, taking out first class seats, but we are not changing the seat pitch of the coach cabin. We are utilizing our resources better by matching supply and demand. These ex-shuttle A320's will be flying regular mainline routes to the Caribbean, West Coast or business centers around up and down the east coast. There will no longer be a dedicated fleet to just the shuttle flying. All A320's will be configured to 16/126, all A319's will be configured to 12/108, etc. Our standard seat pitch, averaging 33", will remain the same. I owuld agree with your assessment if we were hap hazardly adding seating capacity and reducing the seat pitch, but that is not what is happening.
Hope -
Seat pitch change will be minimal. The seat configuration will be the same as all of the other A320's that we are flying. Average seat pitch on all of our AirBus a/c is 33". The coach seat pitch on the 757 aircraft will also remain the same.
mbmbbost -
I couldn't agree more we need to bring back the days that you could purchase an upgrade for 20-40-60.00 over a full coach fare ticket.
longing4piedmont
Veteran
- May 19, 2003
- 1,291
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I would like for you to expand on that statement. Exactly what brings you to that conclusion?LavMan said:
MarkMyWords
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,900
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LavMan -
I agree that we need to make the fleets common and I applaude the reconfigurations, all of them - the A319 and A320 shuttle a/c to mainline configuration and the 757's to high density. Routing aircraft will be easier when we rid ourselves of the shuttle sub fleet type.
I don't agree with you on the cadillac for yugo price statement. Our VFF's are used to being rewarded for their business with us. And I do agree that the F/C cabin is a great perk for them and should continue. But I think that many people fear that the reduction of seats will have a negative effect on their future travels and I have been trying, relentlessly, to calm those fears. These customers bring in a lot of high dollar revenue to this airline and we need to keep them happy, their fear of things being taken from them are unfounded.
I agree that we need to make the fleets common and I applaude the reconfigurations, all of them - the A319 and A320 shuttle a/c to mainline configuration and the 757's to high density. Routing aircraft will be easier when we rid ourselves of the shuttle sub fleet type.
I don't agree with you on the cadillac for yugo price statement. Our VFF's are used to being rewarded for their business with us. And I do agree that the F/C cabin is a great perk for them and should continue. But I think that many people fear that the reduction of seats will have a negative effect on their future travels and I have been trying, relentlessly, to calm those fears. These customers bring in a lot of high dollar revenue to this airline and we need to keep them happy, their fear of things being taken from them are unfounded.
Mark, you are ignoring the fact that if the Shuttle, for which a tremendous price was paid (made bigger by competitive bids from others, primarily AA), had done what it was supposed to, those dedicated aircraft would be right where they are. Instead, notwithstanding 9/11, they just priced it out of existence. Half the load paid peanuts (government contract fares), and the rest were gouged at over $300 RT. Meanwhile, AMTRAK continued to upgrade its service. The result was 45% load factors. Also, I'm glad to see you don't buy into this bashing of VFF's. None of us ever gets a seat they could have sold. People should stop acting like we preempt full fare paying customers. It just isn't so.
MarkMyWords
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,900
- 1
Deel -
I know full well the plight and problems with the shuttle and what lead to its demise, and I am not making light of that by any means. The intention of my posts was to impress upon people that all change is not bad. What they are going to do with the 757 aircraft is the right thing to do. I was using the shuttle aircraft to prove a point. If truth be told, when they first configured the shuttle aircraft in an all coach configuration I didn't think it was a good idea. I felt that the shuttle dedicated aircraft should have remained in a standard configuration and the f/c seats used as a marketing tool to enhance product loyalty to our VFF's. We would offer a premium product on our shuttle flights versus DL's all coach flying. Similar to todays Song. We could exploit that difference. After this fall, all of our shuttle flights will offer a premium cabin and I think that is an excellent idea and needs to be MARKETED as such.
As for not bashing our VFF's, I am no fool....I know where the butter for my bread comes from.
Again, this is all just my opinion...
I know full well the plight and problems with the shuttle and what lead to its demise, and I am not making light of that by any means. The intention of my posts was to impress upon people that all change is not bad. What they are going to do with the 757 aircraft is the right thing to do. I was using the shuttle aircraft to prove a point. If truth be told, when they first configured the shuttle aircraft in an all coach configuration I didn't think it was a good idea. I felt that the shuttle dedicated aircraft should have remained in a standard configuration and the f/c seats used as a marketing tool to enhance product loyalty to our VFF's. We would offer a premium product on our shuttle flights versus DL's all coach flying. Similar to todays Song. We could exploit that difference. After this fall, all of our shuttle flights will offer a premium cabin and I think that is an excellent idea and needs to be MARKETED as such.
As for not bashing our VFF's, I am no fool....I know where the butter for my bread comes from.
Again, this is all just my opinion...
longing4piedmont
Veteran
- May 19, 2003
- 1,291
- 6
Lav,
I'm still waiting for your response
L4P
I'm still waiting for your response
L4P
longing4piedmont
Veteran
- May 19, 2003
- 1,291
- 6
There must be something wrong with my post or my computer, I don't think Lavman can see them
