Anti-AFA Delta FA's On US 1549

[dapoes]

but they are not, so lets get with the program and make it a Yes or No...know what Im saying?

And thats my point, Lukes argument says its ok to have the existing laws in place for Ryan and Lynx elections because of the lesser head count, but be different for DAL because theres more and the union would have to work harder. How does that make any sense?

 

[Dignity]

And thats my point, Lukes argument says its ok to have the existing laws in place for Ryan and Lynx elections because of the lesser head count, but be different for DAL because theres more and the union would have to work harder. How does that make any sense?

this is just my thinking..that group was very small less than a hundred I am thinking? so either way it really would not have matter what type of ballot they used...when a group is as large as this one it does seem to be a little more relevant, taking into consideration how many who choose not to participate would count as no...that doesnt seem fair to me over-all...

 

[dapoes]

this is just my thinking..that group was very small less than a hundred I am thinking? so either way it really would not have matter what type of ballot they used...when a group is as large as this one it does seem to be a little more relevant, taking into consideration how many who choose not to participate would count as no...that doesnt seem fair to me over-all...

It just makes it more difficult for the AFA to reach the entire group. And that's the premise of AFA's argument. Otherwise if the process was so overtly inhibiting, then why did AFA succeed w/NWA in 2005? Answer: The voting process had nothing to do with their success, and did not inhibit in any way. Correct?

 

[BoeingBoy]

The theory behind the NMB's election process has always been that union representation is optional and shouldn't be forced on the majority by the minority. Therefore it's incumbent on the union seeking to represent the group to affirmatively demonstrate that over 50% of the group desires representation.

That's almost the reverse of elections for government office where insuring that someone is elected to each office is seen as more important.

Does the NMB election process make it harder to unionize a group? Probably so, maybe even certainly so. But the right not to be represented is considered more important than making it easier for a union to win a representational election.

Jim

 

[jalbalpa]

Does the NMB election process make it harder to unionize a group? Probably so, maybe even certainly so. But the right not to be represented is considered more important than making it easier for a union to win a representational election.

Using your view of things, why is it that union elections under the NLRA are held with YES/NO ballots? Obviously every industry besides the airline and railroad industry feel differently.

 

[Dignity]

then why did AFA succeed w/NWA in 2005? Answer: The voting process had nothing to do with their success, and did not inhibit in any way. Correct?

actually you are correct in a way..because there would have been representation regardless because it was absolutely necessary in our case (especially with such poor labor relations)..they did not really succeed rather than simply had a shoe in because our group would have never outright forfeited representation under the circumstances.. it would have gone the same way with the same results regarding a Yes or No ballot...

however that still does not dismiss the fact overall the process..well.. its so archaic and needing change so desperately!

 

[Dignity]

Does the NMB election process make it harder to unionize a group? Probably so

it is interesting to me in a way...why would they knowingly make an election process harder?

 

[Dignity]

Using your view of things, why is it that union elections under the NLRA are held with YES/NO ballots? Obviously every industry besides the airline and railroad industry feel differently.

I have always wondered why they make it more difficult for..in this case..airline workers...why not simply let the majority either Yes or No actually determine what the majority feels is best?

 

[jalbalpa]

Dignity...

The answer is simple.

The RLA was created in 1926, the main purpose of the RLA was to prevent a disruption in interstate commerce. When the RLA was created it only included railroads, a couple of years later airlines were added. congress figured that railroads carry passengers + cargo and so do airlines so why not just add them to the RLA. We know that today that interstate commerce constitutes a much different system then that of 1926. The current NMB has literally done that, prevent even remotely the chance of disruption of interstate commerce even if that means throwing the workers of this great country under the bus. The government has failed to keep up with times, and this is causing controversy. We need reform at the National Mediation Board, and we need reform in the Railway Labor Act.
We cannot afford to have someone that is in the pocket of corporate America run this, or any other government agency.

 

[Dignity]

Dignity...

The answer is simple.

The RLA was created in 1926, the main purpose of the RLA was to prevent a disruption in interstate commerce. When the RLA was created it only included railroads, a couple of years later airlines were added. congress figured that railroads carry passengers + cargo and so do airlines so why not just add them to the RLA. We know that today that interstate commerce constitutes a much different system then that of 1926. The current NMB has literally done that, prevent even remotely the chance of disruption of interstate commerce even if that means throwing the workers of this great country under the bus. The government has failed to keep up with times, and this is causing controversy. We need reform at the National Mediation Board, and we need reform in the Railway Labor Act.

I actually appreciate and do agree there needs to be reform...but that is going to take some time to accomplish..a lot of it..

We cannot afford to have someone that is in the pocket of corporate America run this, or any other government agency.

Let me tell you about these politicians..they promise the world in order to satisfy their personal agenda and get people to vote for them..once in...well....sometimes you get a real good one..most of the times...you end up with...someone with a personal agenda...

those people at the top generally look after the ones at the top...and its both Democrat and Republicans... while I understand what you are saying...they are always in those pockets...regardless..

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

And thats my point, Lukes argument says its ok to have the existing laws in place for Ryan and Lynx elections because of the lesser head count, but be different for DAL because theres more and the union would have to work harder. How does that make any sense?

That is NOT what I'm saying at all. I NEVER said there should be 2 sets of laws per size of airline.
I'm merely saying that it is harder to "corral" a group of 21,000 than 300. It's obvious. You're trying to make this into something that it is not.
All I can say is you must have had some really awful experience with a union that makes you interpret things so off the mark and not be able to embrace simple numbers.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

First off Luke you really need to chill and not get so stressed out over this discussion. And who exactly are me and my cronies?



Ok Luke, maybe it would have different outcome. Or maybe not. Who really knows for sure. You assume it would. I admit that I don't really know if it would. Is that what you are getting angry about?

I'm neither stressed nor angry. I know that probably disappoints you as you have said in previous posts (and apparently it fills your days) that you like it when the pot is stirred.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

whatever the outcome of this election either way, we are just going to have to drop that cronies mentality line of thinking(from both sides), and I know its present...clicks and what-not probably will still be to an extent...but we have to come together as a group..

I used the term "cronies" to indicate dapoes and anti-union FA activists including the No Way AFA f/a's.
What do you mean by a "cronies mentality line of thinking"?
Of course we are going to come together. You can work as a team and still disagree on an issue or two.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Using your view of things, why is it that union elections under the NLRA are held with YES/NO ballots? Obviously every industry besides the airline and railroad industry feel differently.

You basically answered your own question in another post - because the railroads, and later the airlines, were deemed essential to interstate commerce. So employees under the RLA are harder to unionize, but once unionized are harder to de-unionize (plus the benefit of fewer strikes/lockouts).

Would you be willing to adapt all the ramifications of being under the NLRB to have the yes/no ballot? For example:

Are you willing to have your contract terminated with 60 days notice? How about amended with 60 days notice - are you ok with that?

Are you willing to have the majority of votes cast determine if the union will be tossed out? And face that possibility every 12 months? And give the employer to power to seek a decertification vote?

Jim

 

[jalbalpa]

I am ok with some of those things such as a majority of votes cast determine if the union is tossed out. This will keep the union somewhat on its toes and pressure it to work for the people.