And you want a raise?

[Bob Owens]

Let's say we get our 2001 contract back with full retro and COLA, is it still OK for Joe Slug-go to slack off, and not pull his weight? AA could pay us 50.00 dollars an hour, and we still would have Joe Slug-go's doing 2 hours worth of work in an 8 hour shift. Why is that? It's because our lame ### union isn't policing their men, they protect the lazy unskilled workers, just like company dictates, to keep control of their union.

Its not the unions job to police the workers, the union doesnt pick and hire them, nor do they fire them, the company does, they have management for that, as far as protecting the slugs there's a thing called "Duty of Fair Representation", legally the Union is obliged to represent even the slugs (that the company hired). The company basically picks who is in the union but the union is obliged to represent all of them.

 

[Bob Owens]

At another union shop years ago, the equivalent of the TWU's executive board would regularly have meetings with the slugs (as another put it) and explain to them the entire premise of their pay was based upon the company's ability to turn a profit. While the union was there to assist them in matters re: seniority, unfairness by management, undue terminations, etc, they were not there to make excuses as to why the individual couldn't or wouldn't do their job making others carry their load.

The TWU, by contrast, wants to keep the slugs as they pay dues the same as those who work - it's immaterial to them whether anything gets done or not as the International profits regardless and they know the company will hire more dues payers to make up whatever shortfall there is with respect to getting the job done.

Not only does this so-called "union" (the TWU) have it's priorities mixed up but American's (mis)management is complicit also in that they refuse (I lean towards unable) to run the place as a business designed to make money because doing so would endanger friendships and empires.

I can tell you this, when workers complain to the union then usually a Steward or even the President will approach the member and let them know about it. If co-workers are complaing then more than likely management has seen or heard of it as well. However other than talking to the person there are no other tools at the unions disposal to try and change a members behavior. Does anyone think that if AMP came in that all of a sudden the slugs would change their behavior? Did any of you ever ask the SWA guys why they switched from the IBT to AMFA right after they got them an industry leading contract? Well I did, and what they cited was that the IBT would not bring their grievances forward, even termination cases.

If management isnt riding the slugs or cant put a case together thats not the Unions fault, once again, the company hired them, let them get through probation and doesnt fire them. The union doesnt pick the membership, the company does.

 

[PhatSappy]

I can tell you this, when workers complain to the union then usually a Steward or even the President will approach the member and let them know about it. If co-workers are complaing then more than likely management has seen or heard of it as well. However other than talking to the person there are no other tools at the unions disposal to try and change a members behavior. Does anyone think that if AMP came in that all of a sudden the slugs would change their behavior? Did any of you ever ask the SWA guys why they switched from the IBT to AMFA right after they got them an industry leading contract? Well I did, and what they cited was that the IBT would not bring their grievances forward, even termination cases.

If management isnt riding the slugs or cant put a case together thats not the Unions fault, once again, the company hired them, let them get through probation and doesnt fire them. The union doesnt pick the membership, the company does.

A lot of people here are missing the point. This thread started with an illustration based on a slug at my station. He / She isn't alone. And yes, they are still around because of incompetent managers who can't get it right. The other main point is that there are a lot of "perfect" OLD aircraft on the ramp every night because a lot of mechanics fail to write up a single item.

And you want a pay raise. Turn on the flashlight and fire up the pen. It is your meal ticket. The TWU officers will NEVER risk jail to tell you to kick off a "safety program". Do it anyway.

 

[Hopeful]

A lot of people here are missing the point. This thread started with an illustration based on a slug at my station. He / She isn't alone. And yes, they are still around because of incompetent managers who can't get it right. The other main point is that there are a lot of "perfect" OLD aircraft on the ramp every night because a lot of mechanics fail to write up a single item.

And you want a pay raise. Turn on the flashlight and fire up the pen. It is your meal ticket. The TWU officers will NEVER risk jail to tell you to kick off a "safety program". Do it anyway.

i don't know if I would refer to those mechanics who fail to write up a single item as slugs....They are probably just lazy and want to get done. I would label them Lazy "SOBS".....Or maybe they simply feel that they give the company two hours of work for eight hours pay..

But a slug is more someone who couldn't tie his/her shoe with help from another mechanic or TCC or CC.....He is the type who doesn't know how to access maintenance manual references on the computer unless it is his EPAYS statement.

He is the type who is so helpless that supervisors direct CC's to send him help or just replace him on a job. He is the type who skates by while others do all the work.
And lastly, and sadly, he is the type who the union will defend because it is their "obligation" to do so for a union dues paying member..

it is a sad state of affairs.

 

[737823]

i don't know if I would refer to those mechanics who fail to write up a single item as slugs....They are probably just lazy and want to get done. I would label them Lazy "SOBS".....Or maybe they simply feel that they give the company two hours of work for eight hours pay..

But a slug is more someone who couldn't tie his/her shoe with help from another mechanic or TCC or CC.....He is the type who doesn't know how to access maintenance manual references on the computer unless it is his EPAYS statement.

He is the type who is so helpless that supervisors direct CC's to send him help or just replace him on a job. He is the type who skates by while others do all the work.
And lastly, and sadly, he is the type who the union will defend because it is their "obligation" to do so for a union dues paying member..

it is a sad state of affairs.

Hopeful, for once we can agree. It is indeed sad the unions will protect workers like you described, but sadly they are bound to do so by the CBA. So now you do agree that unions protect some lazy, disgruntled, and incompetent workers.

Josh

 

[Mr Red]

WRONG managment does'nt do their job to get rid of them !!!

 

[Hopeful]

Hopeful, for once we can agree. It is indeed sad the unions will protect workers like you described, but sadly they are bound to do so by the CBA. So now you do agree that unions protect some lazy, disgruntled, and incompetent workers.

Josh

I never disagreed with that fact. a good union will allow dicipline of those who don't carry their weight. What they fail to realize is that the work ethics of those "slugs" will sadly paint ALL mechanics as lazy and worthless. It would be in the union's bests interests to tell its members that if they are to demand and expect higher wages, they should do the job they were hired to do and do it professionally.
I have no problem with this. If I criticize management for ineptness and terrible managerial skills, It is only fair I expect the same of my union and fellow members!

 

[737823]

I never disagreed with that fact. a good union will allow dicipline of those who don't carry their weight. What they fail to realize is that the work ethics of those "slugs" will sadly paint ALL mechanics as lazy and worthless. It would be in the union's bests interests to tell its members that if they are to demand and expect higher wages, they should do the job they were hired to do and do it professionally.
I have no problem with this. If I criticize management for ineptness and terrible managerial skills, It is only fair I expect the same of my union and fellow members!

I agree with you 100% Hopeful, and I'll confess I am guilty of painting all unions and union members with the same brush. Much like there are good and bad doctors, attorneys, teachers, etc there are good and bad unions.

My limited understanding is that it is the responsibility (legally) for the union to protect all of its members and their interests-even if it means going out on a limb for an uninterested and all around weak employee that should be ejected.

Josh

 

[Hopeful]

I agree with you 100% Hopeful, and I'll confess I am guilty of painting all unions and union members with the same brush.

Unfortunately that was a picture that began being painted years ago. And not just by anti-unionists or pro-company types, but people in general who work for a living and criticized and were envious of what union members earned in similiar capacities.
And I will admit that certain unions and members have allowed this to happen. Instead of preserving higher pay and benefits, they decided that union does would prevail at any costs, even it meant saving a job of someone who doesnt deserve one.

Sadly, some mechancis could earn $50 an hour and nothing will change on their part.

And turn on any news outlet or financial network, and you will hear how municipal unions are bankrupting states like California and the nation in general.
What people fail to understand is that Companies and Cities and States and even the federal Government have entered into collective bargaining agreements ages ago and want to either end or alter these contracts by government decree.
That is wrong..Do it through negotiations.

 

[Frank Szabo]

... snip
But a slug is more someone who couldn't tie his/her shoe with help from another mechanic or TCC or CC.....He is the type who doesn't know how to access maintenance manual references on the computer unless it is his EPAYS statement.

He is the type who is so helpless that supervisors direct CC's to send him help or just replace him on a job. He is the type who skates by while others do all the work.
... snip

You wouldn't be referring to the mechanics and soupervisors at TULE who call Tool & Die to do their work when they either can't do it or don't want to, would you?

In tooling, we turn away our work, not to mention the work we never get to see (until after it's farmed out and comes in WRONG to be repaired rather than sending back), because "the aircraft have first priority". We have an entire collection of people who aspire to do nothing but work on aircraft and build bucking bars for hanger personnel.

 

[PhatSappy]

i don't know if I would refer to those mechanics who fail to write up a single item as slugs....They are probably just lazy and want to get done. I would label them Lazy "SOBS".....Or maybe they simply feel that they give the company two hours of work for eight hours pay..

But a slug is more someone who couldn't tie his/her shoe with help from another mechanic or TCC or CC.....He is the type who doesn't know how to access maintenance manual references on the computer unless it is his EPAYS statement.

He is the type who is so helpless that supervisors direct CC's to send him help or just replace him on a job. He is the type who skates by while others do all the work.
And lastly, and sadly, he is the type who the union will defend because it is their "obligation" to do so for a union dues paying member..

it is a sad state of affairs.

But a slug is more someone who couldn't tie his/her shoe with help from another mechanic or TCC or CC.....He is the type who doesn't know how to access maintenance manual references on the computer unless it is his EPAYS statement

I might add, that the slug has utter contempt for coworkers, crew chiefs, company, passengers, safety, pencils - off or at least "high-speeds" his/her inspections, has more opinion than anyone in the unit, and can't fix a sandwich - much less an airplane - without breaking something. Especially the cretin I wrote about as an example.

As for the E58 matter, that is something we all need to address. No you are not a slug for not filling in every block of the E58 - nor would that mean you are "busting ass" etc. You would however be helping yourself and all of us.

Not every item takes a plane out of service, but every legitimate writeup that does improves safety overall. Remember who flies. You and your family - and mine - most likely!

 

[telebender1956]

I can tell you this, when workers complain to the union then usually a Steward or even the President will approach the member and let them know about it. If co-workers are complaing then more than likely management has seen or heard of it as well. However other than talking to the person there are no other tools at the unions disposal to try and change a members behavior. Does anyone think that if AMP came in that all of a sudden the slugs would change their behavior? Did any of you ever ask the SWA guys why they switched from the IBT to AMFA right after they got them an industry leading contract? Well I did, and what they cited was that the IBT would not bring their grievances forward, even termination cases.

If management isnt riding the slugs or cant put a case together thats not the Unions fault, once again, the company hired them, let them get through probation and doesnt fire them. The union doesnt pick the membership, the company does.

The management at AA actually likes keeping a few "slugs" around in each work area because it gives them cover for their incompetence. This is why they will not write-up or fire these individuals.

 

[telebender1956]

AA has them them on the management side too....way, way, too many. Worthless morons that do more damage to the operation that you can fathom because of their arrogance, stupidity, and lack of experience. They screw up one area, then are bounced on to another area to do the same thing, or they get a "new position" in the corner to keep them out of the way. They suck up a six-figure salary, and accomplish nothing. Can't get them to make a decision, because they don't know which one is the right one. I guess they keep these six-figure slugs around to have someone to blame when the manure hits the fan.

I guess it's one reason Arrogant Airlines lost $500 million in one quarter.....because nobody gives a rats ass.


Yeah, AA hires people to supervise or manage Heavy C Checks who have NEVER worked in aircraft maintenance. This makes about as much sense as hiring an electrician or plumber to supervise open heart surgery at the Hospital. Makes me sleep good @ night knowing we have these people running our airline.The "good ol' boy network" is alive and well at Tulsa TULE.

 

[HiFly 2]

When will this union mentality stop? You are screwing yourselves. But, at the same time, you are still loading bags, emptying lavatories... Please go to KFC or the local 7-11 (no pun intended).

 

[Frank Szabo]

HiFly2 has just joined a few other obnoxious SOBs on my "ignored" list.