AMR talks about training fill-in flight attendants

[gasman]

Excellent, AA needs more F/As in their 60's...

I will agree with your statement regarding AA needing more f/as in their 60's.

AA offering recall to the "older " TWA f/as during your strike is a smart move . The TWA f/as would be more than happy to either cross or force a crAApy contract for the AA f/as to work under for the next 6+ years. After all, being 60+ has its advantages, meaning for the short time they will cause alot of damage to your work group and be able to retire!

ENJOY KARMA .......[[[[[[[>>>>>>>

 

[Mach85ER]

FA Mikey,

I saw your post after I posted my last comment. Thank you for being one of the informed FA's.
A group knowing it's history, all of the details, will have a better chance for success during any
conflict.

Along with the support you noted, APA also spent close to a million dollars on SPC centers nationwide as well as running the HQ in DFW. At my small base, many volunteered to help the strike.

Personally, if I could have seen into the future back then and known the attitude and ingratitude, I would have spent my vacation driving off somewhere with my wife instead of spending 5, 14 hour days manning computers and telephones, buying food, keeping spirits up as I visited the picket line.

Others did far more. I wonder where the Captain is now who was in Tokyo or someplace like that, that bought the FA's full fare tickets home? I've always wondered if the Emery Air Freight pilots who put FA's on their jumpseats home during the strike (in total violation of the FAA and their company rules). I've always wondered if any of those pilot ran into the industry famous AA FA anti-pilot jumpseater atittude since then? ("Do you think you're going to seat in my FC seat you scumbag freighter pilot, go back to 34E now!!")

I also wonder what one Captain would do now. Back then, he was one of the ones that question a few SCABS before flight. They failed, and he wouldn't fly. He showed up at the APA Hotel and told us he was immediately suspended without pay and his termination hearing was the following week. I was a couple of weeks before he knew he wasn't fired. I'm sure this guy sat around listening to 8 mouthy FA's at a Europe crew room tell everybody the pilots "did nothing" for the 98th time.

As I said, good luck, success will depend of your group and nobody else.

 

[upsilon]

It's the internet, so I don't know if they come from actual AA FA's, but they do match the attitude of many very uniformed FA's I've flown with in the 16 years since that strike.

Didn't you mean 'uninformed'? It makes more sense in the context.

 

[Mach85ER]

Didn't you mean 'uninformed'? It makes more sense in the context.

uninformed

Correct, I fixed it.
Thx for the heads up.

 

[conniegirl]

It's the internet, so I don't know if they come from actual AA FA's, but they do match the attitude of many very uninformed FA's I've flown with in the 16 years since that strike. I wish you guys luck, but you're going to do it this time without guys like me and I will strongly communicate to APA that our membership not spend one dime of our dues money to support a APFA strike.

As a group, the AA FA's are totally clueless as to the help APA provided. I would go as far as to quote Rahm Emanuel regarding the lack of knowledge, but I'd get banned and really can't stand him in the first place.

As I mentioned, APFA did the hard work themselves as should every union on the property. If you need another employee group for your success, you're dead in the first place. During the FA strike, APA was like the Gatorade guys you will see getting the players drinks during the Super Bowl. That as well as providing valuable intel pretty much covers our contribution.

 

[conniegirl]

Dear Mach:


It makes me sorry to hear that you feel somewhat abused or unappreciated by a portion, probably a small percentage, of the AA flight attendants.

Having said that, I'm going to make just such a statement regarding the AA flight attendants in general, given my contact with them after we were so unceremoniously brought into your culture.

Laura Gladding used the word "hubris" in her last message ...she used that expression in regard to American management and their unwillingness to "bargain" with the Union.

I had a really good chuckle at that statement, because the word hubris (entitlement and arrogance) cannot begin to describe the behavior of the Flight Attendants at American in regards to us. The apologists here and on other websites will excuse their behavior by telling us that we were a defunct carrier (not true, but urban legend is easier to use when justifying nasty behavior)....that we asked for it (also not true, but what the heck)...that we lost in court and so deserve what we got (there's never been a court appearance, but oh well. it's been repeated often enough that I'd rather just say it than check the facts), that we deserved it....you can fill in the blanks.

Our strike was long and ugly. We stood out there on those picket lines in 20 degree weather with no backup from the Mechanics and Related (they had a clause in their contract that didn't allow their support ) and with our Pilots who did just what you all did...they supported us when they could, and encouraged us when the going got rougher by the day and with few exceptions I think most of us more than appreciated that from them. And, in the long run, they went to work, and the buses with the cross-overs rolled over our lines and into the terminal. It was hard work, hard emotionally and I wouldn't wish it on anyone again.

However, it made us tough and resilient....I was out for 15 months and many were out for four or more years. That hones someone, that sort of hardship. If you can survive that you discover that you can survive many things more and that is the crux of the mistake that APFA has made about us. They do not want to understand who we are. Each time they (think) they have a win...each time they think they've beaten us at one more disenfranchisement .....loss of seniority, loss of the domiciles we were promised ON PAPER, loss of voting rights without payment, skewed elections that have to be investigated.....all that and they high-five each other down in Euless and out on the line and congratulate themselves all over again at ridding themselves of the very people who remind them on a daily basis of their lies, their unethical behavior and ultimately at what will happen to them.

Those few flight attendants who are thankless for the support given by your membership, are unfortunately, representative of almost all of those we've been forced to deal with. And you know what, five days does not make a work stoppage and as arrogant as some of these posters have been here regarding their strike and how they've shown the Company, and us, and their passengers, and the flying public ......they are going to find out how every dog has his day, and that the fat lady hasn't even begun clearing her throat much less singing her song.

 

[Maark767]

You may be right about your top 2 list

Here are a few other items to add to your list

TWO things that will also NEVER HAPPEN

#1. RESTORE & MORE

#2. MAY DAY IS PAY DAY

You really must not be a union person... so sad...
Of course the union must start way high with it's request as you never get everything you ask for...
They always meet in the middle when it's all said and done. I expect our President to shoot for the moon.
We may get paid this May... who knows....

 

[TWskyliner]

Spoken with dignity and grace conniegirl.

 

[Bob Owens]

I have spoken to Bill O'Driscoll many times, as we were at US together during negotiations, he explained the AA deal was a last resort to try and save as much of TWA as possible, AA at the last minute balked at the deal unless the IAM and removed the LPPs from the CBAs otherwise the deal was off, so AA put a gun to the IAM's head and they had no choice but to agree and try to save as many jobs as possible.

Its time to move on all ready, look around the whole industry is screwed.

Thanks, I met with Sito Pantoya and Ed LaClaire when the whole process was going on and told them that nobody would vote away their own seniority and that they should have held on to the LPPs. They explained that the company owed money towards the pension and an engine that the IAM owned as well. If they hadnt agreed that, along with the jobs, would have been at risk.


Its often been brought up that when TWA took over Ozark they gave the guys all their seniority, well thats true, but thats only because their union refused to waive the LPPs and Ozark was never a major carrier with an older workforce with many years. Very few at TWA were displaced or put on the street due to the merger. As far as treatment one of the TWA /Ozark guys told me the reception he got when he went to AA was no worse then the reception he got when he went to TWA. People are people, if fourty or fifty year old FAs who had the misfortune of being bounced around a few carriers at TWA were asked to allow FAs from another carrier come in and bump them out of their seniority do you expect us to believe they would say sure? Well they didnt do it for the EAL workers who ended up at TWA. They fought to good fight and went right to the bottom when they went to TWA, would that be justification for them to scab if you went on strike after they hired on?

Sure Ozark employes were blended in but thats because it was never put to a membership vote and the IAM wanted the dues.

Conniegirl and those who are saying that they will scab should really look in the mirror. Remember it was AA that closed your domiciles and laid you off, not the APFA. All the APFA did was put you at the bottom of the list. A scab is a scab, all scabs have their motive but it doesnt change the fact that regardless of the motive a scab is a scab. Years ago you fought a good fight, yet now you are willing to be what you hated back then, Benidict Arnold fought many good fights but if you do what you are claiming you say you are willing to do you will forever be a scab just as Benidict Arnold will forever be a traitor.

 

[gasman]

You really must not be a union person... so sad...
Of course the union must start way high with it's request as you never get everything you ask for...
They always meet in the middle when it's all said and done. I expect our President to shoot for the moon.
We may get paid this May... who knows....

You wrote, you must not be a real union person...so sad

What I find sad is that fact that you truly believe that you are a union person, when you and your group believe in stapling another union member.
Now you're shocked that the staplers wont support your strike!

That's like a thief that has invaded someone's home, stealing everything in sight and now many years later asking them to join you for dinner.

You know, after all, it's been so many years ago and the TWA f/as need to get over being robbed as the TWA f/a's sit at the table that you had stolen from their homes. Prepare the food that you had stolen from their pantries, and wearing the jewelry that you had taken from their jewelry box!

 

[gasman]

Thanks, I met with Sito Pantoya and Ed LaClaire when the whole process was going on and told them that nobody would vote away their own seniority and that they should have held on to the LPPs. They explained that the company owed money towards the pension and an engine that the IAM owned as well. If they hadnt agreed that, along with the jobs, would have been at risk.


Its often been brought up that when TWA took over Ozark they gave the guys all their seniority, well thats true, but thats only because their union refused to waive the LPPs and Ozark was never a major carrier with an older workforce with many years. Very few at TWA were displaced or put on the street due to the merger. As far as treatment one of the TWA /Ozark guys told me the reception he got when he went to AA was no worse then the reception he got when he went to TWA. People are people, if fourty or fifty year old FAs who had the misfortune of being bounced around a few carriers at TWA were asked to allow FAs from another carrier come in and bump them out of their seniority do you expect us to believe they would say sure? Well they didnt do it for the EAL workers who eneded up at TWA.

Sure Ozark employes were blended in but thats because it was never put to a membership vote and the IAM wanted the dues.

Conniegirl and those who are saying that they will scab should really look in the mirror. Remember it was AA that closed your domiciles and laid you off, not the APFA. All the APFA did was put you at the bottom of the list. A scab is a scab, all scabs have their motive but it doesnt change the fact that regardless of the motive a scab is a scab. Years ago you fought a good fight, yet now you are willing to be what you hated back then, Benidict Arnold fought many good fights but if you do what you are claiming you say you are willing to do you will forever be a scab just as Benidict Arnold will forever be a traitor.

You wrote ...Sure Ozark employes were blended in but thats because it was never put to a membership vote



The TWA stapling was NEVER PUT TO A VOTE by the AA f/as!

 

[700UW]

I know Sito and Eddie Jr, good people, O'Driscoll was working on a deal with Mike Milken do save TW but AA came in before he could work out the details.

 

[Itestwell]

All the APFA did was put you at the bottom of the list.

That's ALL?

Unreal.....
:mf_boff:

 

[Bob Owens]

You wrote, you must not be a real union person...so sad

What I find sad is that fact that you truly believe that you are a union person, when you and your group believe in stapling another union member.
Now you're shocked that the staplers wont support your strike!

That's like a thief that has invaded someone's home, stealing everything in sight and now many years later asking them to join you for dinner.

You know, after all, it's been so many years ago and the TWA f/as need to get over being robbed as the TWA f/a's sit at the table that you had stolen from their homes. Prepare the food that you had stolen from their pantries, and wearing the jewelry that you had taken from their jewelry box!

I was unaware that seniority was portable.

Your anaolgy is lacking because it was the TWA employees that went to AA. Its as if the AA employees are sitting on AA planes and a bunch of TWA employees are saying step aside our job is gone so we are taking yours.

The fact is the workers at AA never asked AA to buy TWA, the workers at TWA never asked AA to buy TWA.

May I ask you what privilege did you extend to the IAM workers from EAL, other than waiving the initiation fee, when they showed up at TWA?

We need to move on, many of us put years into companies and got no credit for that when we ended up somewhere else. Its our own fault for not consolidating our unions and making our pay rates and benifits standardized and seniority portable. All we had to do was look at the railroads to see our future but we didnt and we are all paying the price.

 

[TWskyliner]

Sure Ozark employes were blended in but thats because it was never put to a membership vote and the IAM wanted the dues.

Just more and more misinformation...the IAM wasn't even our flight attendant union, IFFA was.