AMP vs TWU which one is more Democratic?

Bob,

Is their a provision in the TWU constitution that allows you to recall an Officer?

In Solidarity
CIO

Recall no, charges, a Trial and subsequent removal if found "guilty', yes, but Sonny Hall maintained that Local unions can put recall in their Bylaws, they just dont want it to apply to the International. We tried to put in recall for International officers at the Convention but it never even made it to the floor.

There's a proceedure where members on a Local level can bring forth charges against Officials but only for cause. The "cause" must be a violation of the Constitution. "No Confidence" is not considered a cause. Locals can put it in their Bylaws that members can recall for any reason but the International doesnt like it. Our first attempt to add Recall to our Bylaws was rejected, when we pointed out that several TWU Locals already have recall in their bylaws it was later approved.

However at the International Level they are immune from any membership driven action, except of course, decertification. So the members choice is accept it as is or decertify, I think they should have more options and the Resolutions we presented at the Convention sought to bring more accountability to the members but as you know, they were all rejected, they never even were read to the Convention, they were in the book but never read like the Resolutions the International wanted to pass. We had to make a motion to even discuss the resolution, which was rejected. At the Convention I had asked several of Rojer Toussaints team why they voted against certain resolutions, liike the electronic balloting they used, they claimed they didnt, when I pointed it out to them in the book they admitted that they never actually read them and just voted how Rojer told them to vote. Hopefully at the next Convention we will have better luck.

Members can only elect delegates, who then vote at the Convention for International officers, who then appoint division leaders. I feel thats wrong as well, the delegates from each division should vote for who heads their division. That would be like saying that we should be content to just elect Local and State officials and let them determine who the Governors, Congressmen , Senators and President should be, and on top of that we shouldnt even have the right to know how our elected leaders voted! Its wrong and it needs to be fixed, thats another Resolution that got voted down at the Convention, our local proposed that we use electronic voting at the Convention, one where each vote is recorded and then the membership would be given access to those records, so at least the delegates could be held accountable. Little actually commented in favor of electronic balloting after the fact because one vote between Donny Tyndall and challenger JRuiz went to a division of the house and the two vote counts taken were very different. Local 100 has over 40 EB members and they have used electronic voting with much success for several years.

The only ones who can recall International officers per the Constitution in reality is officials of the union after they conduct a Kangaroo Court. If one is accused by the membership and the International has no beef against the indivual accused more than likely the findings of the International will be that the charges are without merit, if one is accused by the International there is a 100% chance of conviction without any real evidence because the accusor appoints the Judge and Jury from within their ranks. How does the line go? "We're going to give him a fair trial followed by a first class hanging"

Some argue that "Just cause" should be the standard for removing elected Union officials because thats the standard that Unions use for termination. But there's a big difference here, being a union representative is a priviledge of confidence bestowed upon an individual by their peers, they are saying "You speak for me". If the members dont feel that way should this person still have that priviledge? Revocation of that priviledge is not the same as being fired because you return to your former position, you do not become unemployed, you still have your job. If someone goes out and gives a good line of BS during their campaign but then once in office does a complete flip should the members have to live with that for three years? No. Many forget that. Thats why we have recall in our bylaws. Every one of us knows that at any time the members can remove us and put us back on our box, and thats the way it should be.

On a Local level the TWU is very Democratic, or it can be depending on what the members put in the Bylaws. Our problem with accountability stems from the fact that we are split up into twenty one Locals so the International controls the contract, the Locals have little real say. From the system board to negotiations its their ball. This is not a problem for Locals 100, 555, 556 and most other Locals in the TWU. In those Locals they are the only Local under the contract, or contracts. The International doesnt really control administration or negotiations. So you dont have people there at the table from the Union side who are not accountable to the members like we have. John Samuelson(100), Tom McDaniels (556) and Gary Shultz (555)dont have International officials telling them they they should not ask for much because the employer may go bankrupt, they dont have International officials telling them that their members shouldnt expect an industry leading contract and they "should put this whole thing in their rear view mirror and do whats best for the company". They probably dont have International officials telling them every bit of doom and gloom there is, if they did they would probably tell the International to "get out". One way we could fix this is to become more like 556. While consolidating into one Local would undoubtably put control in either Texas or Oklahoma the fact is I'd rather have control in the hands of someone we as a whole chose and not someone who is making over $150k and not accountable to us. I want someone who knows that if he doesnt even try to produce an industry leading contract he will be back on his box.
 
NEWS FLASH The long awaited Dept of Labor filing on the TWU pay is out and they all got raises in 2010.....did you?
Actually I believe the report would be for Fiscal year 2009 and reflect raises in 2009, not 2010.
 
The real question is can the membership vote in, or recall a international officer? Hey CIO, Jim Little made 249.703.00 in 2010. Did you see the latest LM2 ? What a waist of hard earned union dues !
NEWS FLASH The long awaited Dept of Labor filing on the TWU pay is out and they all got raises in 2010.....did you?
Jim Little.............................................3.75% to $249,703.00
John Conley........................................7.1% to $186,500.00
Gary Drummond.................................4.7% to $173,481.00
Robert Gless.......................................3.5% to $171,453.00
Marlene Borisuck (Jim's Secretary)...........10% to $140,853.00
How many of these people did you see on a ballot???????

WOW! Those are some big, big numbers. Good to know where our dues are going. We would certainly be better off without any union at all if this is what they will be doing with our money. How will AMP be any different?! Thieves!!
 
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WOW! Those are some big, big numbers. Good to know where our dues are going. We would certainly be better off without any union at all if this is what they will be doing with our money. How will AMP be any different?! Thieves!!
What do you mean? we've been talking about this for 4 months now. You must have one of those 56K dial up modems.
 
WOW! Those are some big, big numbers. Good to know where our dues are going. We would certainly be better off without any union at all if this is what they will be doing with our money. How will AMP be any different?! Thieves!!

I'm ready to vote out all unions....
 
I think hackman is one of those girls that would have been fired long ago if it wasn't for the union. Hackman is not worthy of time, she never has anything constructive or intelligent to say.
 
I think hackman is one of those girls that would have been fired long ago if it wasn't for the union. Hackman is not worthy of time, she never has anything constructive or intelligent to say.
Ahhh....yawn. Fact is either your a scared little boy in ORD and you need somebody to hold your hand in these turbulent times, or your here to attempt to undermine and debase under someones direction. Which to tell the truth, your really not very good at.

My posts are just far beyond what your able to comprehend on your own, and they are mostly true. Calling me a "girl" and stating "I would have been fired long ago" is laughable at best.

But please, do keep 'em coming. We need a good chuckle.
 
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TWU Genius of the week

Gordon Clark 12/7/2010 (A three time winner)
"Yes, you may have to relocate or commute if you live in Kansas City, but it’s still good news for our people and our industry,” Clark said last week. Clark is closing Transport Workers Union Local 530’s Kansas City office and plans to continue working for American in Dallas.
Clark who wildly recommended passage of a concessionary contract to save jobs, now admits there's good news in the industry without any concessionary agreement. Oh by the way, Clark is going to Dallas not to swing wrenches but as an unaccountable TWU official and the prospect of a 6-digit salary

For the full list go to
http://www.representationnow.com/id14.htm
 
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What People Are Saying

Since the AMP drive began there have been many conversations within our work place on the differences between a craft, democratic union (AMP) that works for the membership and an industrial, undemocratic union (twu) that puts itself before the membership. But there is a glaring chasm in the foundation of each point of view.

The twu does not and cannot defend their position based on facts. Case in point is the twu’s argument that AMP has no money. The twu insinuates that AMP cannot function without a budget. Well, since AMP has not been certified yet this point is moot but once certified AMP will receive the same amount of dues that the twu currently enjoys from us. But then again the twu neglects to point out that with the dues money that they do receive from our craft and class the salaries that international officers and secretaries receive. Why is that? Is it because when we took cuts in pay and benefits NO ONE in the twu international took the same? Is it because there are secretaries who earn more than we do? Is it because the salaries of twu international officers do not go down but always go up? Or is it simply because their argument in attacking AMP is not based on facts? When AMP becomes certified at AA the salaries of the National Officers, (all 3 of them as compared to how many in the twu ATD?) is tied directly to the AMP Constitution and the members pay.

Another example of the conversations taking place is the twu’s insistence in the past that we “Change from within”. This empty slogan was chanted from the halls of the twu urging the membership to use their energy, knowledge and experience in making the twu strong. But now that there is a threat to the twu’s dues cash cow the membership has all of a sudden turned into incapable dolts. Excuse me but which is it? Is the membership capable of running a union but only at the control of the twu? I don’t think so. There are many people, both in local union positions and members on the shop floor, who are capable of running a craft, democratic union for the membership by the membership.

The twu has tried to tie AMP as an experiment that will fail because AMP is an independent union not affiliated with the AFL-CIO. Again, their case is based upon pure fear. The pilots and flight attendants at AA both broke away from their original unions and created independent unions. Why does the twu neglect to mention this? Is it because after the concessions we all “shared” the pilots and flight attendants both voted out their national officers but we in the twu did not because we can’t. In fact we allowed the twu top dogs to receive raises!

The fact that whenever the twu attempts to defend the twu they never speak about the benefits of staying with the twu or the accomplishments the twu has gain for us such as SRP/OSM, loss of paid lunch, loss of holidays, loss of double time, loss of vacation, B-Scale, etc. In fact the twu attempted to peddle yet another concessionary contract which the membership voted against. All the twu can do is spread lies and half truths. When AMP talks about AMP we speak with facts which are written out in the AMP Constitution. It is sort of funny that with all the conversations going on about our future the twu’s position is a glaring silence.

The time has come to ask ourselves are we better off with an organization with a track record like the twu’s or are we better off taking control of our own profession? If you have signed an AMP Authorization card speak to a coworker who hasn’t yet. If you haven’t signed one yet ask an organizer and help bring democracy and accountability to our craft and class.



GO AMP!
 
TWU Genius of the week

Gordon Clark 12/7/2010 (A three time winner)
"Yes, you may have to relocate or commute if you live in Kansas City, but it’s still good news for our people and our industry,” Clark said last week. Clark is closing Transport Workers Union Local 530’s Kansas City office and plans to continue working for American in Dallas.
Clark who wildly recommended passage of a concessionary contract to save jobs, now admits there's good news in the industry without any concessionary agreement. Oh by the way, Clark is going to Dallas not to swing wrenches but as an unaccountable TWU official and the prospect of a 6-digit salary

For the full list go to
http://www.representationnow.com/id14.htm


What a surprise! A twu koolaid drinker peddles twu mantra and gets rewarded for selling his soul for 30 pieces of dirty silver. Boy, I sure am glad I get to vote him out of his new position.

What?

We can't vote Clark out of his new position?

Oh, that's how the twu operates? No accountability. Undemocratic election procedures. Why would anyone want to stay with such an organization?

GO AMP!
 

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