AMP vs TWU which one is more Democratic?

[odie01]

It might not be a big deal to go from AFW to DFW how about AFW to JFK, ORD, LAX, SFO, BOS. Take a look at the transfer list to DFW, a lot of seniority want to go to DFW. Now how many guys want to uproot their families to go to those high cost of living cities? Not to mention selling their house's in Texas or Oklahoma. Forget about commuting some days the stby list to DFW from ORD is over 100 people long, and then you will be competing against the flight crews that commute from DFW and all the flight crews from all over that have to do annual training at DFW.

The big reason I want separate contracts is that a poster from AFW forgot his name says he will do anything to keep his day shift weekends off. I'm not willing to take less money so you can be off on the holidays and weekends. That certianly is not a strike issue for line mechanics (I don't care that you WERE a line mechanic), that is why we need separate contracts. Hopefully AMP will let us take a vote on separate contracts, but most likely what will happen is that the AMP organizers won't even bring it up for a vote. The tech guys have a separate contract from ours and they voted it in, and are enjoying a pay raise that we won't get for another couple of years I fear.


What I hope happens is that we vote in the SWA contract even if that means giving up our scope clause. Bob Owens says it's cheaper for AA to do our own OH, so the scope clause is a mute point. Going by Bob's info.

Duke,
I don't understand the reasoning behind two contracts when you can have language for the line in one. Also, AMP organizers don't, and will not bring anything to a vote because our job is to explain what we have to offer and collect NMB cards. All officers will be elected and all voting is done by the membership. Democracy, that is what we are selling, and all you have to do is sign a card. Have a happy and safe Thanksgiving

 

[Bob Owens]

That is precisely the reason to have separate contracts, OH won't be upset with line pay they don't get, and line won't be upset with OH willing to take less money to maintain their life style.

Well maybe you could make that claim if you voted NO, like most of us in 562 did. So while many Line guys in moderate cost areas voted Yes, the guys in Tulsa (OH and Line), AFW (OH) and DFW(Line), all low cost areas, overwhelmingly voted NO. You were one of those who was content with their lifestyle and willing to give concessions this time. If you voted to accept the TA why should we believe that if we shed OH all of a sudden you would be willing to fight for more?

Owens says it's cheaper for AA to do their own OH so there is no reason to worry about the scope clause, and I believe he also said that SWA is starting to do some of their own OH.

While I cant prove it thats what AA's behavior indicates. Over the last seven years we brought more work in house and we are recalling and hiring people even though they could legally outsource all that work and lay off around 1200 workers. If they could get it done cheaper elsewhere they would. You have to remember that prior to 9-11 AA was the leader in outsourcing, our long history of outsourcing should mean that we are better at picking which stuff to outsource because we've been at it longer than most. If they are bringing more and more back in house its because they are realizing that its cheaper.

 

[CIO]

Amp is nothing more than a pipe dream that was cut and pasted together by a few individuals with no experience and looking at the dollar signs they bring in from the cult followers. Look who trained these individuals. The master of deception, Great at talking BS with little substance.

Oh Yes! If Independant is so great why are the other groups at AA soliciiting so much help from larger organizations? And who has been success at bring a contract back to the AMT's to vote on and currently is still in negotiations and not on ice at this time?

Happy Thanksgiving,

In Solidarity
CIO

 

[odie01]

Amp is nothing more than a pipe dream that was cut and pasted together by a few individuals with no experience and looking at the dollar signs they bring in from the cult followers. Look who trained these individuals. The master of deception, Great at talking BS with little substance.

Oh Yes! If Independant is so great why are the other groups at AA soliciiting so much help from larger organizations? And who has been success at bring a contract back to the AMT's to vote on and currently is still in negotiations and not on ice at this time?

Happy Thanksgiving,

In Solidarity
CIO

Nice try, tell that to the F/As and pilots. This has been in the works alot longer than you think. I sence the twu/company know this snowball is rolling.

 

[Duke787]

Well maybe you could make that claim if you voted NO, like most of us in 562 did. So while many Line guys in moderate cost areas voted Yes, the guys in Tulsa (OH and Line), AFW (OH) and DFW(Line), all low cost areas, overwhelmingly voted NO. You were one of those who was content with their lifestyle and willing to give concessions this time. If you voted to accept the TA why should we believe that if we shed OH all of a sudden you would be willing to fight for more?

You make it sound like I crossed a picket line because I voted on a TA that the TWU negotiation team brought back to us, I have no faith that the TWU will bring a better TA. We will go 2 more years without a pay raise.

What a surprise that the guys from Texas and Tulsa voted down a contract that might make them work weekends. Remember it was the TWU that brought us the TA, not the company.

 

[Hopeful]

You make it sound like I crossed a picket line because I voted on a TA that the TWU negotiation team brought back to us, I have no faith that the TWU will bring a better TA. We will go 2 more years without a pay raise.

What a surprise that the guys from Texas and Tulsa voted down a contract that might make them work weekends. Remember it was the TWU that brought us the TA, not the company.

Are you saying they voted no ONLY because of having to work weekends and that alone?

 

[Duke787]

Are you saying they voted no ONLY because of having to work weekends and that alone?

Of course not, I miss spoke on that one, no offense intended. There was a few things in that TA that were not good for OH.

 

[Hopeful]

Of course not, I miss spoke on that one, no offense intended. There was a few things in that TA that were not good for OH.

No offense taken on my part..But that thought would trouble me if it were true. Then that would mean if that issue were resolved, then we would be stuck with the same TA.

 

[Frank Szabo]

No offense taken on my part..But that thought would trouble me if it were true. Then that would mean if that issue were resolved, then we would be stuck with the same TA.

What seems to have happened was the membership finally took a slogan seriously (to the TWU's detriment) that an "Injury to One is an Injury to All" - the corporate hosing of the under 49 crowd didn't sit well with anyone, from those I never dreamed would utter a sound against the TWU, to the older guys that decided the screwing of the younger guys to benefit the older crowd (typical way of doing business by the "UNION") stopped with them. Of course , there was the "I'll get mine" crowd but this time they were badly outnumbered. Little Jimmy and his useless "yes" boys appear much better dressed with some egg on their faces - it's entirely appropriate - don't you agree Mr. Hopeful??

Save some room for the Jello today ...

 

[odie01]

What seems to have happened was the membership finally took a slogan seriously (to the TWU's detriment) that an "Injury to One is an Injury to All" - the corporate hosing of the under 49 crowd didn't sit well with anyone, from those I never dreamed would utter a sound against the TWU, to the older guys that decided the screwing of the younger guys to benefit the older crowd (typical way of doing business by the "UNION") stopped with them. Of course , there was the "I'll get mine" crowd but this time they were badly outnumbered. Little Jimmy and his useless "yes" boys appear much better dressed with some egg on their faces - it's entirely appropriate - don't you agree Mr. Hopeful??

Save some room for the Jello today ...

New Thanksgiving edition and a new genius of the week

http://www.representationnow.com/

 

[odie01]

New Thanksgiving edition and a new genius of the week

http://www.representationnow.com/

Don't forget, today use to be a holiday. If you do anything today, sign an AMP card.
Thanks

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

If I were a potential voter I'd be much more concerned with AMP vs. TWU: which one is more effective? And would AMP be able to do as much or more than TWU in terms of getting a deal done?

 

[Duke787]

Mechanics who voted against the deal said they were opposed to language that would transform the M&E base into an around-the-clock operation, including weekend shifts

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=45&articleid=20101125_45_E1_CUTLIN130594


I completely understand why OH opposes that language, but what are we ALL going to give up so they can have weekends off? I say separate contracts between line and OH.

 

[odie01]

Mechanics who voted against the deal said they were opposed to language that would transform the M&E base into an around-the-clock operation, including weekend shifts

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=45&articleid=20101125_45_E1_CUTLIN130594


I completely understand why OH opposes that language, but what are we ALL going to give up so they can have weekends off? I say separate contracts between line and OH.

The twu can't even negotiate one contract let alone two. And whats with this Tulsa World article that states Gary Drummund is on a listening tour? Has anyone seen this guy at Tul or AFW? This article makes it sound like we turned down the TA because 24/7 ops at maint. bases, what a joke, that was way down on the list. It seems like whoever wrote this wants their reader to think that we turned down the contract for petty bs.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Mechanics who voted against the deal said they were opposed to language that would transform the M&E base into an around-the-clock operation, including weekend shifts

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=45&articleid=20101125_45_E1_CUTLIN130594


I completely understand why OH opposes that language, but what are we ALL going to give up so they can have weekends off? I say separate contracts between line and OH.

Unfortunately, there are always a few that believe what propaganda is put forth in the press. The company does have a push on the run a 24/7 operation but they don't intend to pay for it. Sorry Charlie - ain't happening.

They'd prefer to take things from younger employees (not lesser senior) that had been promised. That ain't happening either. That's bordering on, if not outright, age discrimination.

The twu convinced the company that the higher senior people would buy into the rest of the contract as the higher senior had done for many contracts previously - "Hose the kids", they say, "I've got mine". Nearly 70% thought otherwise, "It stops with me" is more like what the membership was thinking.

Both the union and company are standing before the mediator with a family-sized helping of egg on their faces and my minimums of an acceptable contract have risen due to the defacto insults from the "union and company. Others need to develop the same attitude as there will be, no doubt, "wonderous" changes in forthcoming contracts that will save all of humanity from itself, bring the ozone layer back, etc. and et al.

... and if you believe Stewart of the Tulsa World speaks for anyone besides himself and companies who feed him articles to publish, you're badly mistaken.