AMFA......read on

[FWAAA]

If AMFA got in, what would stop them from getting a LOA covering that $4160/year I nto some other account? There really is no 'big risk', the mechanics don't have enough invested in the pension, only 6 years worth of contributions.

Agreed.
 
Even if the IAM pension contribution was at risk (it's not), sometimes a divorce is costly, and the last thing that low-paid US IAM or AA TWU AMTs should do is worry about the crappy-ass IAM pension as a reason to not divorce the IAM/TWU.   
 
In 2010,  the AA AMTs focused on the retiree medical prefunding and voted down an hourly payraise.    Now, years later, still no substantial pay raise and rumours that AA's AMTs won't ever see their retiree medical prefunding account proceeds.   
 
Vote the bastards out and then figure out how to achieve hourly wages that resemble those at WN, UPS and FedEx and stop focusing on the small change items like the IAM pension or the retiree prefunding accounts.   

 

[700UW]

And what does WN, UPS and FedEx all have in common?
 
Most outsourced maintenance.
 
AA will give you WN wages, give them WN's CBA, US has offered that several times over the years.
 
And kiss about 75% of maintenance looking for work.

 

[Zom JFK]

So $30+ an hour is not livable?
 
In NY, barely.
 
How do the workers that make $7.25 an hour survive?
 
Government benefits like food stamps, medicaid, etc.
 
Or better yet, how about $2.13 an hour servers and bartenders?
 
Tips.

 

[blue collar]

And what does WN, UPS and FedEx all have in common?
 
Most outsourced maintenance.
 
AA will give you WN wages, give them WN's CBA, US has offered that several times over the years.
 
And kiss about 75% of maintenance looking for work.

I'm not so sure they would get rid of 75%. Seems that low pay isn't stemming the tide of layoffs at AA, and US was cut so deep in its BKs that they don't have a whole lot of fat to trim.
How many layoffs were caused at WN due to outsourcing maintenance?

 

[Zom JFK]

Tell the whole truth.
 
You werent in the plan for 35 years, it was negotiated in 2008.

 
So for six years in the plan his benefit is $540.43 a month? I had 20 years in my AA pension when it was frozen. I only accrued $750 a month if I start taking it at 55. It is $850 at 60. 

 

[Rogallo]

 
So for six years in the plan his benefit is $540.43 a month? I had 20 years in my AA pension when it was frozen. I only accrued $750 a month if I start taking it at 55. It is $850 at 60.

 
So, you leaving at 55 or 60?

 

[WeAAsles]

Holy Crap! That's it?

That's being in it for 6 years. Not 35.

 

[Bob Owens]

And what does WN, UPS and FedEx all have in common?
 
Most outsourced maintenance.
 
AA will give you WN wages, give them WN's CBA, US has offered that several times over the years.
 
And kiss about 75% of maintenance looking for work.

Wrong, OH makes up maybe 30% of US and around 50% of AA , so even if they could outsource all of OH, and there is nothing in our language stopping them, that would mean 40% of jobs eliminated, where would the work go, the shortage of STEM is worldwide? Besides by 2018 probably 15% of the current over 60 workforce will be dead, anther 50% will be forced to retire even though they cant afford to and the company will be trying to squeeze even more OT out of those who remain just to keep the operation going. 
 
Here is what the charts said in AMT as far as the age of Mechanics;
AGE
18-24=point 5%
25-30=1.4%
31-40=4.8%
41-50=16.4%
51-60=41.4%
61+=35.5%
 
 93% of the mechanics out there are over 40 years old. 77% of the mechanics are over 50 years of age meaning they are over or within five years of early retirement. 
 
I know quite a few who plan to leave at 55,  have wives with good jobs, and plan to start collecting their pensions and start doing other work.
 
So whose jobs are you saving with two decades of concessions? The kids who no longer are coming in because the conditions suck??  The airlines are doing whatever they can to force us to work longer and more hours and Unions like the IAM (and the TWU under little Videtich et al) are doing everything they can to help them. You guys are telling us to discount our labor when there is no need to do so as there is no surpluses, the only surplus there is is due to the fact that in order to make ends meet mechanics are willing to work 80 hours a week for what they should be making in 40. 
 
here is a quote from the article;
And, at a time when the cost of a four year collegiate aviation degree, with flight or maintenance licensure, can reach nearly $100,000; the return on investment for acquiring such a degree often hinders high school graduates from considering an aviation degree track.
 
This is from magazine that it unabashedly pro company, for years it was filled with articles where employers would claim that they "paid competitive wages" and that the problem was marketing, they didn't need to raise wages they had to make it seem like a fun job and people would make this investment and commitment not for good wages but just to be a part of their fun organization. 

 

[1AA]

If you actually wanted in the IAMNPF (not that you would though), you'd be accruing the same rate as the US mechanics. They're accruing benefits on the lower tier also.

Not true. I looked at the charts from the pension website. We would come in at a lower payout rate than the guys in it from inception. 2008 is not that far back.

 

[Bob Owens]

 
So for six years in the plan his benefit is $540.43 a month? I had 20 years in my AA pension when it was frozen. I only accrued $750 a month if I start taking it at 55. It is $850 at 60. 

Exactly, not enough to live off of and you cant collect and work another job, so the deal is you have to work until you are unable to work. So for 6 years $4000 of his income is diverted into the plan, $24000. He will likely work until he cant work anymore. When people do that they usually dont live very long maybe a year or so, so they get back $6500 and their medical bills leave their estate in debt, or to prevent that they simply stay working till near death so it at least they can keep medical, their heirs get nothing and people like 700 basically have another $18,000 left over to fund their pensions. At least with the 401K over the same 6 years you would sock away at least $10,000 per year between the match and the minimum to get the full match, for a total of $60k plus interest that you could pass on to your hears, but 700 may see his multiemployer IAM pension cut because they didn't get the extra $18 k from the dead guy. No doubt 700 wins if we all get sucked into that abyss. 
 
The premise of the plan is that more people die off before they can collect much, and the extra funds are used to pay those who are fortunate to live longer. 10,000 more people paying into the fund will be great for those who are collecting now, but with a declining membership most likely there wont be much left for us when we retire. And make no mistake, the IAM is in decline, with contracts like the one they just got with the mega profitable AA thats a good thing for the rest of labor. 
 
 
The A&P workforce is old, so even old guys will get hired. So lets say SWA started hiring, at 55 you could retire from AA, start collecting your $750/month, and within a few years be at the much higher SWA rate of pay. You could also resign earler then retire and start collecting at 55.  Under the IAM plan you cant do that, you cant collect and go work at another carrier. IIRC 5 years of perfect attendance at SWA would buy you around 5 years of retiree medical. Continetal also has a similar sick bank funded retiree medical, we have nothing. 

 

[Bob Owens]

And what does WN, UPS and FedEx all have in common?
 
Most outsourced maintenance.
 
AA will give you WN wages, give them WN's CBA, US has offered that several times over the years.
 
And kiss about 75% of maintenance looking for work.

Another point. Over the last five years or so we have seen several major mergers, however none of them resulted in mechanics being laid off. They cant lay off, because if 93 % of the workforce is already middle aged--over 40, then if they lay off 7% of the workforce then they will likely have 100% over 40. If they laid off 75% of the workforce then they would likely have 100% over 60.

Imagine that, 100% over 60 years old!

 

[700UW]

UA had laidoff since there merger, as CO is hiring, UA has laid off, DL and NW didnt have to cut as NW eliminated AMFA already.
 
And US and both AA has laidoff before during each bankruptcy.
 
And DL has cut more in DTW again and MEM.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

UA had laidoff since there merger, as CO is hiring, UA has laid off, DL and NW didnt have to cut as NW eliminated AMFA already.
 
And US and both AA has laidoff before during each bankruptcy.
 
And DL has cut more in DTW again and MEM.

 
While we at UAL still have mechs on furlough, and alot were laid off in 2008 when the ibt first came onboard, there haven't been any layoffs since the merger.
 
this is mechanics, other areas of the company have lost people

 

[blue collar]

Not true. I looked at the charts from the pension website. We would come in at a lower payout rate than the guys in it from inception. 2008 is not that far back.

Yes true. The US mechanics are on schedule b, the lower of the two plans. There isn't any lower, so IF you we're be in the pension, you would be on the same schedule. US fleet has been in the plan since before 2003, so they are on schedule a, and they just had their future accruals slashed (along the lines of the schedule b accruals).

 

[Bob Owens]

UA had laidoff since there merger, as CO is hiring, UA has laid off, DL and NW didnt have to cut as NW eliminated AMFA already.
 
And US and both AA has laidoff before during each bankruptcy.
 
And DL has cut more in DTW again and MEM.

No company boy, UAL laid off prior to the merger. Another non-mechanic who knows everything about a profession he was never a part of. Fear, Fear, Fear, that's the IAM way to keep em in line isn't it?  What about Southwest and Air Tran? Neglected that merger. Go ahead keep trying to tell us we need unions like the IAM to keep tearing down the profession to save us from unemployment, you forget the Union didn't get us our Licenses or our job, in the meantime we are getting poor and they are getting rich. Whats your cut? 
 
As third seat pointed out other areas of the companies saw layoffs as a result of the mergers, Delta-NWA, UAL-CAL, WN-AT, none of them laid off mechanics, they all may have laid off other workers, but none laid off mechanics. Attrition took care of any surplus that resulted from those mergers, plus with an old workforce a layoff means a permanent loss of your youngest already trained workers, so they may even carry them heavy till some old guys leave. AA has been hiring for around five years, they cant keep mechanics in places like NY and LAX, they keep quitting. 
 
As for DL, was it a station reduction or was it a system reduction, was anyone forced to the street or were they offered jobs in other cities?