AMFA......read on

[TWU informer]

All it takes is a little common sense, read through these forums, and it isn't hard to grasp that collectively the AMT's in the country are not near as smart as they think they.
 
We are our own worst enemy and our individual arrogance is how we are manipulated collectively by both industrial unions and management.
 
You might not like to hear the truth, but that doesn't make it not so.
Collectively we are not union men at all, we are individuals that think we know it all, and as a group can't agree on the color of the sky.
 
Sad

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

You are correct because if we were smart we would have left this dead end career 20 years ago. I guess our hearts are in the wrong place the love for aviation faded after it was to late...

 

[Kev3188]

 

We are our own worst enemy and our individual arrogance is how we are manipulated collectively by both industrial unions and management.

I think you could extend that to include much of Working Class America.

Sad indeed...

 

[WeAAsles]

 

I think you could extend that to include much of Working Class America.

Sad indeed...

I'll extend it even further. The American people have forgotten that sense of unity and have become nothing more than a set of individuals who no longer care about their neighborhood or community.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Yes true. The US mechanics are on schedule b, the lower of the two plans. There isn't any lower, so IF you we're be in the pension, you would be on the same schedule. US fleet has been in the plan since before 2003, so they are on schedule a, and they just had their future accruals slashed (along the lines of the schedule b accruals).

For clarification, there is no more schedule A. When the IAM Pension Trustees decided to slash future benefits, what it meant was to abolish schedule A.  That's the one that US fleet was on. Schedule B was created in 2004 or so, and we were told for all new groups [I think that included US MX].  What we were not told is that it was also created to be a low net to catch the members when the IAM Pension trustees abolished schedule A.  It was a bitter pill to swallow since the IAM sold the fleet contract and cashing in all of our benefits on the fact "At least you have a pension".   It sold to uneducated members, which were plenty. They like the word "Pension".  But even back when we got the IAMPF, it was done as a $47 million concession by abolishing a very good 401k contribution.  Management was putting in up to 10% into our 401k's including overtime. 
 
The schedule B [dunno maybe they call that the new schedule A now] is absolutely terrible.  I'm not sure how in the world anyone can look a member in the face and claim it is livable.  The problem is compounded in that the company continues to contribute our benefits to the IAMPF but the IAMPF puts rules in place where those contributions can go into the IAMPF pockets instead of the members.  It's the IAMPF that bags all the monies from those who don't get 5 years of credit.  Also, 40% of our membership is part time and they are subject to additional taxes by the IAMPF in the form of reductions in credit. For those who are married, the spousel offset hammers you as well.
 
Moving forward, my assumption is that the TWU/IAM association will be the bargaining rep.  My main focus in joint talks, from the outside of negotiations, is to educate all the TWU members and IAM members on the zaps, traps, and pitfalls of the IAMPF.  It's a terrible terrible plan. The last negotiation team said they would address the 3 prong approach.  Every single one of them said that.  But they didn't, they just added more company money into our IAMPF and said "Tuffa Lucka" to our current 401k.  That must change.  Either allow all members to choose [like a one time thing like they did at Alaska] or stop BSing about a 3 prong and start including a 3 prong.  God forbid the IAMPF gets even bigger contributions from my employer into its nasty as hell pension.
 
One thing I haven't touched on is the trend of DB plans. They are not only dinosaurs but they are at more risk now, especially for retirees, than they ever have been.  There is no guarantee that whatever little funds are there, are going to be there.  And to keep the plans green, the unions either slash future benefits or advocate in DC to slash current benefits of retirees.  To the IAM credit [for now] they have not signed on with other unions to slash current union pension benefits from those collecting the pension. 

 

[Tim Nelson]

I'll extend it even further. The American people have forgotten that sense of unity and have become nothing more than a set of individuals who no longer care about their neighborhood or community.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

While I can't disagree with your statement, I will simply add that the unions in America have also seemed to buy into the realities that corporate America manufacture. I've said this before, it's very hard to see where the unions start and management ends.  Union[ism] of the last century had much more beliefs and actions and would look incredibly radical in today's world.  The beliefs included sacrifice, including death, a complete violation of contracts, a complete violation of American laws, etc.  Nobody that I know of has the totality of those beliefs.  I admire those who sacrificed back in the day.  
 
There needs to be a tuneup of the American Labor movement.  In fact, I'm not convinced there is a American Labor Movement.  The culture has changed and I'm not sure of the answer or how to get things back on track, but what we have now needs to change.  Can the present American Labor leaders start that change?  Dunno but that's where it has to start.  When the masses see leadership sacrificing, then maybe the masses will. 
 
Strictly my opinion, I think things have to get a lot worse in this country. I hope things don't get worse but it has made us all a bit soft and that makes it harder to fight for things believed in.

 

[TWU informer]

While I can't disagree with your statement, I will simply add that the unions in America have also seemed to buy into the realities that corporate America manufacture. I've said this before, it's very hard to see where the unions start and management ends.  Union[ism] of the last century had much more beliefs and actions and would look incredibly radical in today's world.  The beliefs included sacrifice, including death, a complete violation of contracts, a complete violation of American laws, etc.  Nobody that I know of has the totality of those beliefs.  I admire those who sacrificed back in the day.  
 
There needs to be a tuneup of the American Labor movement.  In fact, I'm not convinced there is a American Labor Movement.  The culture has changed and I'm not sure of the answer or how to get things back on track, but what we have now needs to change.  Can the present American Labor leaders start that change?  Dunno but that's where it has to start.  When the masses see leadership sacrificing, then maybe the masses will. 
 
Strictly my opinion, I think things have to get a lot worse in this country. I hope things don't get worse but it has made us all a bit soft and that makes it harder to fight for things believed in.

The change started with the merger of the AFL and the CIO.
 
Then came the "our fight is in the political arena" and a belief that lawmakers would change or at least balance the laws.
 
Then came Government controlled by money.
 
Then came ignorance by the labor leaders to alter course in repsonse to failed policy. And that, for the most part is due to the labor leaders dont suffer losses along with the membership, so they are all living comfortable with everything to risk to change or take a stand.
 
Leaders are bought off just like the politicians and they all live in harmony and comfort.

 

[Bob Owens]

Money has always controlled government.

 

[southwind]

 DL and NW didnt have to cut as NW eliminated AMFA already.
 

With the help of the IAM.

 

[Kev3188]

One thing I haven't touched on is the trend of DB plans. They are not only dinosaurs but they are at more risk now, especially for retirees, than they ever have been.  There is no guarantee that whatever little funds are there, are going to be there.  And to keep the plans green, the unions either slash future benefits or advocate in DC to slash current benefits of retirees.

...Or strip other parts of a CBA to meet whatever the company's "ask" is...
 
 

There needs to be a tuneup of the American Labor movement.  In fact, I'm not convinced there is a American Labor Movement.

It's still there; it just looks totally different than what you & I are used to. It's on the street (and campus) & on social media. It's not at the local, or at the corner tavern. It's in Worker Centers, city councils, & Fight For $15 rallies.

And when you see that it's still there and still viable, it's energizing.

I agree that things need to "get bad" before people will be pushed to change. Notice how the largest uprisings are service workers or fast food employees? When you have nothing to lose, well...

More of us need to join them.

Like I keep saying, labor leaders need to either get on board, or get out of the way. And if they're not willing to stop empire building, then we collectively need to help them find the door.

 

[bigjets]

While I can't disagree with your statement, I will simply add that the unions in America have also seemed to buy into the realities that corporate America manufacture. I've said this before, it's very hard to see where the unions start and management ends.  Union[ism] of the last century had much more beliefs and actions and would look incredibly radical in today's world.  The beliefs included sacrifice, including death, a complete violation of contracts, a complete violation of American laws, etc.  Nobody that I know of has the totality of those beliefs.  I admire those who sacrificed back in the day.  
 
There needs to be a tuneup of the American Labor movement.  In fact, I'm not convinced there is a American Labor Movement.  The culture has changed and I'm not sure of the answer or how to get things back on track, but what we have now needs to change.  Can the present American Labor leaders start that change?  Dunno but that's where it has to start.  When the masses see leadership sacrificing, then maybe the masses will. 
 
Strictly my opinion, I think things have to get a lot worse in this country. I hope things don't get worse but it has made us all a bit soft and that makes it harder to fight for things believed in.

It's hard to get behind a labor movement when I'm forced to pay union dues and my union negotiates to get a raise on average of a non union shop 3 years later.

I've paid $35k in union dues for that!!!!!!!!

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

...Or strip other parts of a CBA to meet whatever the company's "ask" is...
 
 

It's still there; it just looks totally different than what you & I are used to. It's on the street (and campus) & on social media. It's not at the local, or at the corner tavern. It's in Worker Centers, city councils, & Fight For $15 rallies.

And when you see that it's still there and still viable, it's energizing.

I agree that things need to "get bad" before people will be pushed to change. Notice how the largest uprisings are service workers or fast food employees? When you have nothing to lose, well...

More of us need to join them.

Like I keep saying, labor leaders need to either get on board, or get out of the way. And if they're not willing to stop empire building, then we collectively need to help them find the door.

$15 dollars to work in fast food.......... Give me a break. Fast food is not supposed to be a career.  

 

[blue collar]

$15 dollars to work in fast food.......... Give me a break. Fast food is not supposed to be a career.  

The same has been said (by Parker) about fleet service.

 

[Zom JFK]

$15 dollars to work in fast food.......... Give me a break. Fast food is not supposed to be a career.  

This is what working people think of each other. No wonder we are in the shape were in.

 

[AANOTOK]

This is what working people think of each other. No wonder we are in the shape were in.

x2
 
Bottom line is, the less you pay your worker, the more the rich make.
Seems to me there are some pretty rich folks in fast food...ask Jack or Wendy  B)