AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

LaLILULELO;

Since you are No longer part of AA or even the industry, & it must be quite a while Now. When Union contracts become ammedable and get negotiated what ever language that is not addressed it remains. The ASSociation was just trying to protect itself in this deal. Many at AA thought our contract was long ammedable since the negotiation process started way before it should of been. Money was the driving factor for many, & Let's get what we can NOW. Many are also at the end of their careers so this will be the last contract for them.SOOO fixing the language that does not affect them was way down on the list. That has Been the AA way for the 40+ yrs I have been in the industry. Tulsa for the longest time ruled so whatever they wanted we all got. No Matter how it affected the rest of the workforce. That is why for a LONG Time there was a RIF between Line and Base.

The line stations have been bidding every 3-4 months for 22 yrs that I know of maybe longer. Here in MIA we had a 6 month bid for a couple of yrs. The IAM ran this negotiations and got alot of what they had, I believe the Company & Association did that since the IAM Rolled over many times at USAir. SOO Going forward they could get more in later contracts. The Union is a business and is looking out for itself, NOT US..

For all of the reasons I have listed along with being able to remove top officers, separate from ramp & stores, attend contract negotiations, this is why I have for 22 yrs NOW have been involved in ALL AMFA Drives.

You are if my guess is correct a Tulsa guy, back then AA had lots of NON-A&P's in the shops, they made less money, now that is not the case and AA has to deal with what the TWU allowed them to contract out. It is what it is.

Just watch how much they (AA) contract out as we work our way through this CV19 and contract. I don't believe many in Aircraft Maintenance will get hurt, but Facilities & GSE in M&R will be cut drastically. AS they cut flights to the smaller cities the ramp and stores will take hits.

The TWU and Maybe the IAM will be saying we will get em next time, but how many times have you heard that ?

For ALL of the M&R guys who have NOT signed a AMFA card yet Now is the time or for the next 10+ years you will be SCREWED...

If this mess is the best the Association can do you guys should dump their ass ASAP.

As far as me not working for AA, I still have 2 years recall (unless you wanks gave that up to), pension, and 401k. IIRC they still have my retirement prefunding to. So I still have ties to AA regardless of if I am actually employed there anymore.

Just remember when AMFA takes over to make sure you return the favor to the IGM crowd looking for an early out package or more compensation when they retire who benefited from this PoS contract. Make sure you ram it up their ass just like they did for you. Chances are they have done nothing but clock in and collect a check for the last decade anyway. Funny how the same bastards that repeat the UNION mantra of "brotherhood" are the first ones to stab their "brother" in the back when it benefits them and they can run away and hide (retire). This is why today's UNIONs are a joke. The company is laughing at you.

 

[JimmyBop]

4 more SWA mechanics signing TWU cards....btw...how many stations at Spirit are AMFA organizing?

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

4 more SWA mechanics signing TWU cards....btw...how many stations at Spirit are AMFA organizing?

Show them AA's latest contract. That should snap them out of it. Probably turn their hair white.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

If this mess is the best the Association can do you guys should dump their ass ASAP.

As far as me not working for AA, I still have 2 years recall (unless you wanks gave that up to), pension, and 401k. IIRC they still have my retirement prefunding to. So I still have ties to AA regardless of if I am actually employed there anymore.

Just remember when AMFA takes over to make sure you return the favor to the IGM crowd looking for an early out package or more compensation when they retire who benefited from this PoS contract. Make sure you ram it up their ass just like they did for you. Chances are they have done nothing but clock in and collect a check for the last decade anyway. Funny how the same bastards that repeat the UNION mantra of "brotherhood" are the first ones to stab their "brother" in the back when it benefits them and they can run away and hide (retire). This is why today's UNIONs are a joke. The company is laughing at you.

Enjoy your dumb ass IAM way of doing things. Have fun retraining the same person over and over because you never had the time to train him properly the first time and he has not done the job in 16 months due to your dumbass bid shift rules (no retention).

LaLILELo

Your pension does not link you to AA, neither does your 401k if AA did not exist any longer you would still have both.
The prefunding money went away in the 2012 BK filing.
You better check with the TWU to see if you have recall since that has all changed as well.

You are correct this is a POS contract, and the TWU officers did not force anything the members voted due to the lack of knowledge. Just looking at $$$$.

As far as the bidding process most A&P's don't go in/out of the shops, moving from dock to dock working on different Aircraft just part of the Biz. Line mechanics have worked on all fleets forever. Most line mechanics don't work at the same station during their career due to layoffs, or transfers. Base guys usually stay put.

Voting in AMFA if that happens will give the membership a say in what happens unlike what we have NOW.

Your rant is because of the way the TWU did things in Tulsa, well if you worked a line station you would have a different thought process.

It's not my IAM, not at all I consider myself a AMFA guy. I hate the TWU and have had no affiliation with the IAM since my Eastern Days. This ASSociation is the work of the industrial unions and AFLCIO getting together to keep dues flowing in.

What I don't understand is why you post about AA when you don't work here, What is the draw for you? What do you get out of all the BS that guys who work at AA have to say. When at AA were you part of the M&R group? Part of ramp/Fleet? Do you even have an A&P? What shop did you work?

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

4 more SWA mechanics signing TWU cards....btw...how many stations at Spirit are AMFA organizing?

JimmyBop

The AMFA Guys at SWA are NOT going to switch to the TWU, or go to the IBT, or IAM just not going to happen.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

LaLILELo

Your pension does not link you to AA, neither does your 401k if AA did not exist any longer you would still have both.
The prefunding money went away in the 2012 BK filing.
You better check with the TWU to see if you have recall since that has all changed as well.

I am not looking for your validation.

I will, just out of curiosity, call the TWU and see if I have recall.

You are correct this is a POS contract, and the TWU officers did not force anything the members voted due to the lack of knowledge. Just looking at $$$$.

They (the Association) sure as hell did not draw attention to it either.

As far as the bidding process most A&P's don't go in/out of the shops, moving from dock to dock working on different Aircraft just part of the Biz. Line mechanics have worked on all fleets forever. Most line mechanics don't work at the same station during their career due to layoffs, or transfers. Base guys usually stay put.

They DID stay put. Let's see how that plays out shall we?

Voting in AMFA if that happens will give the membership a say in what happens unlike what we have NOW.

Yes, I know that. That is why I support your efforts to have a REAL UNION instead of this Democrat puppet.

Your rant is because of the way the TWU did things in Tulsa, well if you worked a line station you would have a different thought process.

Maybe you are right but the reality is I didn't work the line.

It's not my IAM, not at all I consider myself a AMFA guy. I hate the TWU and have had no affiliation with the IAM since my Eastern Days. This ASSociation is the work of the industrial unions and AFLCIO getting together to keep dues flowing in.

Why are you telling me the obvious? Everyone on here knows that.

What I don't understand is why you post about AA when you don't work here, What is the draw for you? What do you get out of all the BS that guys who work at AA have to say. When at AA were you part of the M&R group? Part of ramp/Fleet? Do you even have an A&P? What shop did you work?

No I do not have an A&P. I was in Fleet Service at TULE, which means I worked at the maintenance base, not the airport.

There are several reasons I frequent this forum. Number #1, and I will openly admit this, I have it out for TWU because of the way things went down when they got rid of Fleet Service at TULE. Fact is every single person was shown the door except the 2 UNION officers (how convenient). One even bypassed seniority. It was very obvious they cut a deal with management to push a concessionary contract to save their own asses. The rest of the officers at 514 turned a blind eye to it. When the international was notified they turned a blind eye to it as well. Honestly it did not affect me much because I already started preparing to leave but it certainly affected my coworkers whom I had worked with for over a decade. It was a sad thing to watch.

Two though I am not a mechanic and did not work Title 1 I worked with mechanics every single day sometimes literally shoulder to shoulder. I never really payed attention to contracts outside of Fleet until I found out that mechanics got half a days pay for the first sick day. After that I started paying attention to contract disparities. We are supposed to be a UNION, one membership working for one employer, however it is very obvious groups are treated differently in the companies divide and conquer strategy and the Association, it seems, is only too happy to play ball. I think the membership deserves better representation than that. Especially when MY family is still funding it.

Three though I may not work under your contract I am married to an AA employee. Your contract has an impact on MY family life just like it does your family life. You know the employees are not an island unto themselves, spouses and dependents of those employees are affected to. You guys seem to forget that. I am not saying I should have any control over the contract but I will be damned if someone tells me I can't voice my opinion when that contract has an impact on MY life.

However the most important reason I come here is because I am trying to wake people up to the fact they are being used. That what they call a UNION is really just a puppet of the Democratic party that serves 2 functions. #1 turn dues money into campaign contributions #2 indoctrinate the membership to support the Democratic party. The membership really has no say, they have the illusion of control as they are allowed to vote but even at that the UNION can accept a contract "in the membership's best interest" by those who are appointment not elected.

Most people on here know I am very conservative. It should be no surprise to ANYONE that I would rail against a Democrat tool like the Association.

I support AMFA because I support the membership actually having control of the UNION they are funding. I would like my wife's UNION dues to actually count for something besides funding a political party (especially a political party who's ideals I do not support).

 

[swamt]

Since I, as a taxpayer, start supporting your 80 percent overstaffed payroll, that's when.

So LuLu, are ya gonna get unhinged when you start supporting the folks staying at home and getting 25%-65% pay?? Up to approx 15% of Southwest mechanics are taking the stay at home leaves with partial pay. IF the extension comes thru it will help in paying for these programs and leaves.
But on a side note; It will also help in saving more jobs from being lost and NOT just in the aviation industry. Another bonus is it will help save most companies from filling for BK as long as we can start a recovery next year, albeit slow, but we will need to see the improvements then.

 

[swamt]

4 more SWA mechanics signing TWU cards....btw...how many stations at Spirit are AMFA organizing?

You are mistaken. The SWA mechanics will not go to any of the industrial unions.
As far as Spirit, they are collecting cards from all stations, and should be done and voting soon.

 

[1AA]

You are mistaken. The SWA mechanics will not go to any of the industrial unions.
As far as Spirit, they are collecting cards from all stations, and should be done and voting soon.

Hopefully we at AA will be doing the same.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

So LuLu, are ya gonna get unhinged when you start supporting the folks staying at home and getting 25%-65% pay??

Yes. In fact I am. There are TONS of jobs going unfilled right now. Some places are so desperate for employees they advertise apply today start tomorrow. People want to act like the economy and job market are so dismal but that is absolutely not true. Don't believe me? Go to an internet job board.

Another bonus is it will help save most companies from filling for BK

Yeah, by putting our country in debt borrowing from China. Debt that will cost us interest and most likely take DECADES to pay off.

I don't usually like using memes but to simplify and clarify this is what you are doing.

There are tons of jobs out there. Go get one until you are recalled. Don't live off borrowed money and stick someone else with the bill. Very selfish.

 

[swamt]

Hopefully we at AA will be doing the same.

And very soon I hope! Just saw the numbers released by AA. Is the 800 M&R correct? And when we say M&R at AA what groups does that include?? Not just mechanics right???
At least, like AIM posted in another thread, the rifs won't be done the TWU way. According to him your seniority will take you where it takes you and the bumping begins. AA will not like this way as they have been so use to the "juniority" way the TWU did, as well as the crooked "boosting" TWU officers seniority so they are the only ones to NOT get laid off or furloughed. I still say you guys would be better off with AMFA in place before all that starts, just to make sure the contracts are followed to a "T". I still smell some fishingness coming from these twu unions controlling it, sit back and watch how well they will scam to take care of their own (officers and leaders).

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Fact is every single person was shown the door except the 2 UNION officers (how convenient). One even bypassed seniority. It was very obvious they cut a deal with management to push a concessionary contract to save their own asses. The rest of the officers at 514 turned a blind eye to it. When the international was notified they turned a blind eye to it as well.

as well as the crooked "boosting" TWU officers seniority so they are the only ones to NOT get laid off or furloughed.

sit back and watch how well they will scam to take care of their own (officers and leaders).

I already bought the T-shirt.

Following the contract is only for the rank and file. We are all equal but some of us are more equal than others.

UNION officers just fill out their bump papers (putting some other poor SoB out of a job and shorting their elected station headcount) while they stay put on "UNION business".

Once all the little people are gone management slides them into another title group (rather they have openings or not) seniority be damned.

If that is not proof the UNION and company are in bed together I don't know what the hell it would take to convince people.

 

[swamt]

Just more and more reasons they need to go with a class and craft union and fast, before the reductions come. But, I am sure the unions companies will be successful in getting congress or the Pres. to move the extension forward, one way or another.
If/when this extension goes thru, would be an excellent time to go with a vote for AMFA.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

And very soon I hope! Just saw the numbers released by AA. Is the 800 M&R correct? And when we say M&R at AA what groups does that include?? Not just mechanics right???
At least, like AIM posted in another thread, the rifs won't be done the TWU way. According to him your seniority will take you where it takes you and the bumping begins. AA will not like this way as they have been so use to the "juniority" way the TWU did, as well as the crooked "boosting" TWU officers seniority so they are the only ones to NOT get laid off or furloughed. I still say you guys would be better off with AMFA in place before all that starts, just to make sure the contracts are followed to a "T". I still smell some fishingness coming from these twu unions controlling it, sit back and watch how well they will scam to take care of their own (officers and leaders).

SWAMT,

You post so much here and yet you're asking about what groups are part of M&R? (really ???)

The TWU will NOT be controlling the layoffs/rif's that is IF there is any after the final numbers come out of those taking the VEOP - VELA - Contractual stand in stead programs. There is NO Way to insure that the contract will be followed to a "T" as you put it the TWU/IAM ASSociation is corrupt. They will let the company do what it needs to and say they can do that Brother.

Speculation on your part about what is going to happen is just that. You work for SWA and AA's MGMT and the two unions still have NO clue. If you want to find out just what is happening you should chat with one of the main organizers in DFW or TUL. Maybe even ask Bret since he does work for YOU.

My Opinion is that IF anything happens there will be members that get hurt when they should not have been.

I have heard that AMFA Natl. is soon to be putting out another letter to the AA M&R Membership, let's just see what happens with that and how it will affect the card collection, to reach the goal set by AMFA Natl. so that we here can file with the NMB for an election of Union representation.

M&R would be better off with AMFA in place as the bargaining unit but getting the members to fully invest in the career they have is a trying issue.
That is why it has always taken a long time to collect the required number of cards.

 

[swamt]

SWAMT,

You post so much here and yet you're asking about what groups are part of M&R? (really ???)

The TWU will NOT be controlling the layoffs/rif's that is IF there is any after the final numbers come out of those taking the VEOP - VELA - Contractual stand in stead programs. There is NO Way to insure that the contract will be followed to a "T" as you put it the TWU/IAM ASSociation is corrupt. They will let the company do what it needs to and say they can do that Brother.

Speculation on your part about what is going to happen is just that. You work for SWA and AA's MGMT and the two unions still have NO clue. If you want to find out just what is happening you should chat with one of the main organizers in DFW or TUL. Maybe even ask Bret since he does work for YOU.

My Opinion is that IF anything happens there will be members that get hurt when they should not have been.

I have heard that AMFA Natl. is soon to be putting out another letter to the AA M&R Membership, let's just see what happens with that and how it will affect the card collection, to reach the goal set by AMFA Natl. so that we here can file with the NMB for an election of Union representation.

M&R would be better off with AMFA in place as the bargaining unit but getting the members to fully invest in the career they have is a trying issue.
That is why it has always taken a long time to collect the required number of cards.

M&R at your airline, yes. M&R generally means Maintenance and Related. If you were saying Mechanic and Related then yes I do know the groups. More groups are included in Maintenance and Related than in Mechanic and Related. So that is why I was asking.
Looking forward to the AMFA letter soon.