He is under qualified.
AMFA or TEAMSTERS?
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
Yes you have, we all have taken at least that much in real terms. Think about it, if you have to work twice as many hours to try and maintain the lifestyle you used to have you lost half your pay. I dont support Josh on too many of his statements but he is correct on that one, If anything he underestimated it.
The 1113 law is the same for everyone except the weak airline unions allowed some quack Judge to say that unlike all other contracts labor contracts for Airline workers, and airline workers alone are annulled instead of abrogated. Thats our fault, we should have shut the whole country down when that happened. What we allowed would be no different than if a Judge turned around and said black people have to sit in the back of the bus again. It was wrong and it should not be tolerated. Nothing in the 1113 process gives a Judge the right to annul a contract and nothing any carrier has put forward supports annulment. If our contracts are abrogated then we can strike. If Unions are not prepared to defend their right to strike then workers have no real use for them, $700 a year for what?
Well, like you said, people can ask whatever questions they want. You dont refrain from personal attacks and questioning the objectivity of others so its not unreasonable for those you attack to want to know where the attack is coming from.
Not that far, thats the point. By the way I pushed hard to reject the deal, you were poking your nose in saying we should accept whatever they throw on front of us, you are getting to sound like Overspin.
USAIR used to be at the top of the industry. I remember coworkers quitting and going there because the contracts were better. look at where you are now, 11 years after BK, within pennies with the most recent BK and thousands of dollars a year behind carriers that went in BK AFTER you. (UAL, DAL) You are much closer to us than them and nowhere near the carriers that did not go BK (UPS, FED Ex, SWA).
I read where Hittinbottom was complaining that USAIR isnt even offering you guys what they offered us. Is that what the IAM considers good? I would think that you would be demanding at least a little above what UAL and non-union Delta are paying. Pretty pathetic. What are you guys asking fior and why is it secret? When AA declared BK I put out a letter saying that anything less than what post BK UAL has is unacceptable, the head of the ATD attacked me instead of supporting me, that says it all. Our unelected ATD is in managements pocket.
So go ahead and criticize the job the TWU has done, I wont stop you because I agree,I believe that our ATD has sold us out for personal A-5 travel passes, Admirals Club Membership, a padded pension and UBI with a stipend for their unelected operatives.
11 years of concessions, you still have not made it back to what you were making in 2002.
You are losing it, just goes to show how successful the industry has been at reducing the expectatuions of unions. you are defending the fact that you are making less now , in absolute numbers let alone real numbers, than you were in 2002.
Admit that the Unions focked up, thats the first step to recovery. As long as you defend it then we have no reason to believe you will do any better going forward.
- Banned
- #112
I am not defending a thing, the bottom line is US filed chapter 11 in 2002 and 2004, this is the first section 6 negotiations since that has occurred.
All unions at US were forced to negotiate concessions or have the CBA abrogated which happened to M&R.
Also the courts ruled you cant strike upon an abrogation. NW case.
And in the JCBA there were gains gotten, and as you know you cant get everything back right away.
All unions at US were forced to negotiate concessions or have the CBA abrogated which happened to M&R.
Also the courts ruled you cant strike upon an abrogation. NW case.
And in the JCBA there were gains gotten, and as you know you cant get everything back right away.
And courts once ruled that "seperate but equal" is the law, sometimes the courts get it wrong, are you saying Rosa Parks should have just sat in the back of the bus till the courts ruled otherwise? Thats what you are saying airline workers should do. Telling Airline workers that they can not strike upon contract abrogation when the RLA says they can, and every other worker in this country can, is just as unjust as seperate but equal because this ruling expressly says airline workers are "seperate and unequal under the law". The only way we are going to change it is the same way they changed those other unjust laws-civil disobedience of the rulings of these courts, the disruptions then motivate legislators to address what has become an intolerable, disruptive problem. Right now there is no disruption to commerce and the Unions seem to be OK with it, no problem, no reason to address anything. Pretty simple. The Unions arent even trying to inform their members how unjust this is. When will it end?
If you can give it all up at once why cant you get it all back at once? Diminished expectations.
What you seem to fail to be grasping is that even if you got your hourlay wage restored that your real wage, adjusted for inflation is still around 30% less than it was in 2002.So if you got everything back at once you still would be 30% behind where you were. You cant be so blind that you dont see that!!
Look at USAIRs revenue per worker and compare that to what they were bringing in back in 2002. Guranteed its increased by over 100%. where is all that extra money going? Banks, oil companies, lessors (banks), vendors etc. If we wait for the airlines to say they have enough to give us raises it will never happen. This isnt new, why has labor forgotten all the lessons off the past? Watch the Mike Quill debate on Youtube and listen to what Hartley says and listen to what Quill says. Do you sound more like Quill or Hartley? To me, despite your pro-labor quote you sould more like Hartley. My guess is the reason you sound that way is because you are repeating what you were told by the false Unionists who have taken over the labor movement, the ones you blindly trust and support here. The ones that tell you to roll over and take it while they sit back on their six figure salaries and just say how terrible, but necissary all this suffering is.
In the words of Samuel L Jackson "WAKE THE FOCK UP"
- Banned
- #114
The NW FAs appealed it, they lost, and by the time the SCOTUS would hear it who knows if they even would.
Sharon Levine, as you know her also is the one who informed us, and we voted on the final offer and it was approved, so there was no strike allowed.
Sharon Levine, as you know her also is the one who informed us, and we voted on the final offer and it was approved, so there was no strike allowed.
If the Unions acted like unions and shut the country down there would be action. You are a defeatist.
Sharon is a lawyer, not an activist. She makes a ton of money by leaving things exactly as they are. As a lawyer she is not going to openly advocate civil disobedience. She lost nothing by following her advice, cant say the same for your coworkers or mine.
Guess the back of the bus is just fine by you. chant a few slogans to show the world you are a unionist but just accept injustice and contradict everything you claim about Unions and admit that you really feel we are powerless.
I'm done with you and your pathetic excuses, you should be ashamed of yourself. Have fun with Josh.
Bob,
Do you really think job action would force AA to negotiate had you faced abrogation? I understand your frustration and perceived injustice in the NW AFA decision in 2007. Do you really think a wildcat strike would have served your members and the broader AMT profession? Recent wild cat strikes by IAM-represented Air Canada workrers were unsuccessful, a few years back (2006?) there was a wildcat for Toronto Transit Commission which led to prosecution. Canada is more tolerant of organized labor what makes you think a wildcat would be any more successful stateside? Just this morning garbage collectors struck east baby (San Francisco) without success. Why would taking criing action on an already weak company at a vulnerable time advance your interests?
Josh
Do you really think job action would force AA to negotiate had you faced abrogation? I understand your frustration and perceived injustice in the NW AFA decision in 2007. Do you really think a wildcat strike would have served your members and the broader AMT profession? Recent wild cat strikes by IAM-represented Air Canada workrers were unsuccessful, a few years back (2006?) there was a wildcat for Toronto Transit Commission which led to prosecution. Canada is more tolerant of organized labor what makes you think a wildcat would be any more successful stateside? Just this morning garbage collectors struck east baby (San Francisco) without success. Why would taking criing action on an already weak company at a vulnerable time advance your interests?
Josh
It appears the sickout accomplished what it set out to do.
View Original: http://wewantourmoneyback.net/downloads/aa_waves_sickout_fine_settlement.pdf
+++++++++++
AmericanAirlines®
May 1, 2003
Re: Agreed Settlement
The discussions between the Allied Pilots Association (the "Association") and American Airlines, Inc. ("American") concerning modifications to the collective bargaining agreement of May 5, 1997 have resulted in a tentative agreement dated March 31, 2003, which is subject to ratification by the membership. The Association and American also are currently parties to a Settlement Agreement relating to payment of the damages assessed in American Airlines v. Allied Pilots Association, et al. by the United States District Court, Northern District of Texas, Docket No. 7:99-CV-025-X ("Settlement Agreement"). Under that Settlement Agreement, the parties agreed to a schedule for payment of the unpaid amounts of the damages award. The Settlement Agreement also discusses the remedies in the event of non-payment, including a continuation of liens against property of the APA until the payments described in the Settlement Agreement are made and completed and the judgment is satisfied.
The parties agree that if the tentative agreement of March 31, 2003 fully ratifies and goes into effect, all remaining payment obligations described in the Settlement Agreement will be deemed to have been satisfied. American will thereupon take those steps needed to release all liens against the property of the APA.
If this letter accurately describes our understanding with respect to its subject matter, please sign it below in the space indicated and return a signed copy to me.
Sincerely,
Mark L. Burdette
Director, Employee Relations, Flight
ACCEPTED AND AGREED:
Kind Regards,
Harvey West
How well did the IAM do with their wildcat at YYZ?
http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/air-canada-wildcat-strike-over-union-says-1.785938
Josh
