AMFA or TEAMSTERS?
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
Just look around the INDUSTRY, look more global, and honestly tell me Tulsa is your enemy. Damn fool born every minute.
I'm a US mechanic in PHX. I'm wondering who is the most likely new union to represent us post merger. I know they both (AMFA and IBT) have enough cards to submit to the NMB. We at US have enough IBT cards to submit now. Ultimately AA techs will decide who we have by the numbers (no brainer). Does AMFA have the majority of the support? It seems that by the chatter on this forum that they do. I don't know that this forum is a true indicator of who has the majority of the support though. I hope AMFA wins personally. It seems that they have the most interest in helping our craft (by far). I would like some input from the techs over there. Please keep it on topic, as it gets old having to scroll through the non-techs putting their 2 cents in and rambling on about some other b.s. all the time. Thx for any info.
Desert Snake; I would strongly recomend you to do your own homework. One step I would recomend is looking thru the history of any threads dealing with the unions of choice. The above poster, Anomaly, as well as some others, Overspeed, realityck, CIO and some others come on here posting lies about AMFA as well as other carriers such as Southwest Airlines. If you do look back you will find that all these individuals have been proven wrong on almost every single posting that they have posted. I will once again correct the above poster:
Para 1-- This guy is one of the top spinners on this forum. You will find this when you research all his previous postings.
Para 2-- This guy does not even know what a constitution is designed to do.
Para 3-- This guy seems to think the membership is loosing bennifits and wage increases by recalling an officer. Now that's pretty pathetic thinking.
Para 4-- He keeps saying "assoiciation", when in fact he means AMFA. AMFA has nego many successful contracts, this is a flat out lie. Matter fact AMFA has been successful at SWA as well as AS in re-nego a large amount of old teamsters language that allowed unlimited outsourcing in USA as well as out of the USA. Any union that is taking over from another union has no control over the fact that they have to inherit and follow the existing contract for the term to the amendable date. ONLY if both the union and the company agree to re-open the contract then can the contract be re-opned. The teamsters are still garrenteeing that they can re-open the contracts at AA as well as at your carrier US. Do some homework brother it will pay off in the long run. Now you just gotta love this statement; "What good is it to recall a leader AFTER he gave everything away?" Really? So by his thinking, after your leader has givin everything away (just like the TWU did at AA) then the membership should not remove him, and he can do it again. Again pathetic.
Desert Snake; I very strongly recomend you do your own homework. AMFA is a mechanics union ran by mechanics. Not an industrial union with candle makers, bus drivers or truck drivers running the union. With AMFA, mechanics are in every single union position from top to bottom. AMFA is the true democratic and transparent union out there. ALL officers can be recalled by the membership if need be. Membership can sit in on contract nego's as well as senoirity nego's. AMFA's split of dues monies always favors the local side as this is where most of the monies are needed. AMFA's officers are directly affected by any wage increases or decreases, all the other unions officers are not directly affected. This is why the TWU so quickly agreed to the concessions at AA. None of the officers took pay cuts at AA.
We had the teamsters here at SWA. Trust me you do not want the teamsters. We fired the teamsters in a record 2 week card drive. If I were you guys at US I would keep the IAM for now, wait for the representational election to get done at AA. When AMFA prevails and becomes the new and improved representational union at AA, then when the merger is done you guys will become AMFA as well. Good luck in your research...
They are all elected to represent the members best interest. If you do not like an individual they can be removed.
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Your above statement is incorrect. They are not all elected within the teamsters. And you cannot remove them from the positions where they are appointed. Within the teamsters they have numerous positions appointed. And let me tell you something; you cannot remove Jimmy Hoffa, now can you? Within the TWU you cannot remove Jimmy Little. The TWU also has many "appointed positions" too.
The elected members are constantly afraid of being removed : Now this quote from you is interesting. Why are they afraid? If they are doing what is best for the membership then they would have nothing to worry about. Sounds to me more like your guys in charge are having a confidence problem about themselves. If they are constantly worried about it, as you say, you need to remove them and get someone in their that can perform for the membership. That's just week leadership.
to much time to quit
Senior
- Jun 17, 2003
- 318
- 7
I second the motion! Definitely NOT the Reamsters teamsters
Where in my post did I say Tulsa is my enemy? You assumed that. Most line mechs I come across don't hate Tulsa, but we are fed up that Tulsa won't look outside Oklahoma!
I was only saying, in my opinion, Tulsa is holding us back from achieving unification.
Can you please point-out in each constitution where Hoffa or Little are not elected at the convention but are appointed?
I stand by my posting on Amfa.
In Solidarity,
CIO
I have a hard time understanding your position, You are running for office again and will be paid by union dues from the TWU membership, but, you consistently show a distaste for the people you will be answering too. Will you be returning the money back that you will be receiving? It's obvious you hate life in general and you cannot be very effective at representing the best interest of the membership!!
Just a thought;
I wonder if you were to actually be honest and have some integrity and represent the members in a positive manor? imagine what you could accomplish and how much more effective you could be?
In Solidarity,
CIO
787nightmare
Veteran
- Aug 28, 2010
- 722
- 153
Never did I state that Hoffa and Little were appointed. I said, and I quote, "they are not all elected". Which they are not. Answer this CIO, can Hoffa or Little be removed from their positions by process, By the membership?
There you go again trying to spin my post. Again, I said that not ALL are elected. BTW, your post said nothing directly towards AMFA, or at least AMFA was not mentioned. EVERY SINGLE UNION POSITION IN AMFA IS ELECTED AND CAN BE REMOVED, ALL OF THEM. It's that simple...
Anomaly
Veteran
- Jun 2, 2012
- 1,220
- 218
In other words; anyone who disagrees or has an opposite point of view, is either lying or wrong according to swamt.
I have very rarely agreed with the rants of swamt. Likewise, I disagree with his his statement that amfa can negotiate successful contracts. Ozark Airlines, Hughes Airwest, Southern Airways, Braniff, Trump Shuttle, Pacific Airlines, and Airlift International are some of amfa's older represented airlines. They are either all out of business or merged with someone else. amfa's contract did not help any of them.
In 2002 amfa represented more than 11,000 aircraft technicians and related personnel employed at Alaska Airlines,
American Trans Air, Atlantic Coast Airlines, Horizon Air, Mesaba Airlines and Northwest Airlines. Later they added Southwest and United airlines raising the total membership in amfa to it's highest levels of over 18,000 mechanics.
Ask yourself; what happened that all these members bailed on amfa? Northwest was a tragedy that never should have gone down that way. The rest of us perhaps took that as a sign. Nothing in amfa's contract or constitution helped any of these mechanics.
There is not one original afmfa contract in play today.
3 teamster lawyers, two in house and one hired firm, have contradicted this claim by swamt. But what the hell do they know about law? They are only legal experts, not mechanics....
Take that any way you want.
At UAL one of our amfa reps gave away language in the contract that for years defended how you are bumped in case of a furlough. There was no vote, no membership approval, no notice, nothing. One day it was in our agreement, the next it was not. Sure he was recalled, but it did NO GOOD for those people in the next furlough who were from the West, but were forced to stations on the East.
We vote our leaders in at the IBT just like they do at amfa. From Hoffa on down, every member on the executive board is electable. But when the inexperienced are voted in based on popularity, language and members sometimes suffer.
We have no candle makers. However, it is true, some of the Local Presidents are not mechanics. Some are lawyers, economists, Pilots, and even truck drivers.
At their own expense and time. amfa agreements are negotiated SOLELY by elected leaders. Just look at the last amfa update as proof. Each one of these negotiators are executive committee members.
The Teamsters, on the other hand has the stewards and members negotiate contracts with the full support and assistance of the IBT. The member represented negotiating team has the assistance of legal professionals who are always there, not on call as with amfa. The team is financially supported and has access to experienced negotiators as well as any other professionals required.
Because MOST amfa reps including those on Local Executive Boards are direct employees of the airline they represent and are bound by all the rules governing these airline employees. How do you truly challenge your employer if you are still an employee? You don't. You wear two hats and go along with things until you become union/mgt. Teamster business agents are hired and not elected, as you will hear, but they are still held responsible to the Local President and the Executive Board. Teamster BA's are employed by the union, not the carrier and are free to openly disagree with the company without fear of retribution or political process. The Executive members are electable and together with the hired BA's create a system of checks and balances that has proven to be successful.
The truth in these last lines is questionable. Certainly, however, you will not become a part of any union merely by a merger with AA. Unless of course you are both represented by the same union, you most likely will be part of another election.
35% of IAM members would have to fill out cards in order to force an election. IMHO the industrial unions are going to split the votes in Tulsa leaving our best option, AMFA representation, with the most votes. You guys at U.S. enjoy the show and if for some reason you don't like AMFA gin up that 35% and we'll do it again.
