PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
Boy, I sure agree with you on that.
American/USAir-why not now?
- Thread starter mistified
- Start date
Boy, I sure agree with you on that.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #17
Labor costs and benefits are part of a market. When employees of a company are paid at or above average compared to their peers at other companies in their industry or at general industry in the US as a whole, then those employees are not exactly as oppressed as you and others would like to argue that they are.
What the airline industry was 35 years is ago is immaterial. It was based on a closed market where competition was suppressed and costs of all forms were passed on to consumers.
The airline industry was deregulated PRECISELY BECAUSE airfares were too high and competitive forces were not allowed to keep airfares and costs in check.
There is no turning back to a sheltered environment where airlines were able to pass high costs on to consumers, including labor costs which were well above average for general industry as a whole. The reason why labor rates in the airline industry have fallen as much as they have is because they were so high compared to other industries.
There are abundant statistics showing that airline industry pay and benefits are at or above the average for American industry as a whole.
The obvious difference comes between specific airlines within the industry.
There are network airlines that have not engaged in years long negotiations with unions... employees of at least one network airline - and you know exactly who I mean - are on their 2nd post BK contract and are the highest paid for their workgroup among network carriers.
Perhaps it is the failed labor-mgmt model at the MAJORITY of the US industry that is broken.
Given that there are airline employees who are paid at or above average for their workgroup and among American industry, then the problem is not a broken airline industry model esp. given that there are other airlines that have strong labor-mgmt relations and some of them like B6 and DL have employees who have chosen NOT to be represented by unions which have been target #1 for airline mgmt teams.
The problem is labor -mgmt relations at some companies that have kept THE MAJORITY of airline employees at pay levels below their peers while those employees continue to believe that unions can save salary and jobs when the overwhelming evidence is that unions have done no better and oftentimes a whole lot worse than companies that do not have contentious labor relations.
And should be able to see that most legacy airlines have mgmts that have adopted the same labor-mgmt model that US and other airline mgmt groups have used which has kept their employees in their same BK contracts that were forced down their throats almost a decade ago.
Not every airline in the industry operates with that same play book. And not every labor group has fared as badly as labor has at US and others that have been able to keep their employees at BK wages.
After all, some airline employees have salaries and benefit packages that are at or above average which means some are doing better than others. Figuring on why the "haves "have what they have might be more useful than continuing to push a model that has harmed the "have nots."
What the airline industry was 35 years is ago is immaterial. It was based on a closed market where competition was suppressed and costs of all forms were passed on to consumers.
The airline industry was deregulated PRECISELY BECAUSE airfares were too high and competitive forces were not allowed to keep airfares and costs in check.
There is no turning back to a sheltered environment where airlines were able to pass high costs on to consumers, including labor costs which were well above average for general industry as a whole. The reason why labor rates in the airline industry have fallen as much as they have is because they were so high compared to other industries.
There are abundant statistics showing that airline industry pay and benefits are at or above the average for American industry as a whole.
The obvious difference comes between specific airlines within the industry.
There are network airlines that have not engaged in years long negotiations with unions... employees of at least one network airline - and you know exactly who I mean - are on their 2nd post BK contract and are the highest paid for their workgroup among network carriers.
Perhaps it is the failed labor-mgmt model at the MAJORITY of the US industry that is broken.
Given that there are airline employees who are paid at or above average for their workgroup and among American industry, then the problem is not a broken airline industry model esp. given that there are other airlines that have strong labor-mgmt relations and some of them like B6 and DL have employees who have chosen NOT to be represented by unions which have been target #1 for airline mgmt teams.
The problem is labor -mgmt relations at some companies that have kept THE MAJORITY of airline employees at pay levels below their peers while those employees continue to believe that unions can save salary and jobs when the overwhelming evidence is that unions have done no better and oftentimes a whole lot worse than companies that do not have contentious labor relations.
And should be able to see that most legacy airlines have mgmts that have adopted the same labor-mgmt model that US and other airline mgmt groups have used which has kept their employees in their same BK contracts that were forced down their throats almost a decade ago.
Not every airline in the industry operates with that same play book. And not every labor group has fared as badly as labor has at US and others that have been able to keep their employees at BK wages.
After all, some airline employees have salaries and benefit packages that are at or above average which means some are doing better than others. Figuring on why the "haves "have what they have might be more useful than continuing to push a model that has harmed the "have nots."
spectator
Corn Field
- Oct 18, 2011
- 26
- 14
- Banned
- #18
BTW, DL just filed with the SEC that it expects an operating profit BEFORE special items including fuel hedge gains of 10-11%. If all those specials and gains are included, DL's operating margin will be 13-14%, probably one of the highest margins the network airline industry has seen in a very long time.
That should translate into about a $1 billion operating profit, of which DL has set aside $175 MILLION for profit sharing - or better than $2,000 per employee on a QUARTERLY BASIS.
The notion that the network airline industry model is broken and that employees cannot benefit when their companies do is clearly not a theory that a certain ATL based airline believes.
We'll see how well other airlines do in this quarter.
That should translate into about a $1 billion operating profit, of which DL has set aside $175 MILLION for profit sharing - or better than $2,000 per employee on a QUARTERLY BASIS.
The notion that the network airline industry model is broken and that employees cannot benefit when their companies do is clearly not a theory that a certain ATL based airline believes.
We'll see how well other airlines do in this quarter.
Some opinions:
http://www.foxnews.c...test=latestnews
"Could bankruptcy, bad PR and angry pilots ground American Airlines?"
...................."Either they’ll be forced to merge with US Airways or they’ll go down in a ball of flames,” said Kate Hanni, executive director of FlyersRights.org, a California-based airline passenger rights group. “It’s a shame because they used to be a fantastic airline.”.........................
http://www.foxnews.c...test=latestnews
"Could bankruptcy, bad PR and angry pilots ground American Airlines?"
...................."Either they’ll be forced to merge with US Airways or they’ll go down in a ball of flames,” said Kate Hanni, executive director of FlyersRights.org, a California-based airline passenger rights group. “It’s a shame because they used to be a fantastic airline.”.........................
Kev3188
Veteran
Forget which account you signed in with again?
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #21
nope... news as good as DL appears to be on the verge of releasing is worth posting irrespective of the username.
Given the detail they provided in their press release and the use of electronic tickets, they might as well have just released the quarterly report... but I guess the auditors have to make sure every T is crossed.
Given the detail they provided in their press release and the use of electronic tickets, they might as well have just released the quarterly report... but I guess the auditors have to make sure every T is crossed.
blue collar
Veteran
- Mar 17, 2008
- 1,241
- 901
Wow! Spectator speaks!
Do you use the WT account to up spectator's rating too?
Do you use the WT account to up spectator's rating too?
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #23
I think I'd be more worried about the financial aspects of the conversation than who is saying it.
blue collar
Veteran
- Mar 17, 2008
- 1,241
- 901
I take that as a yes.
And what's there to worry about?
And what's there to worry about?
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #25
oh never mind
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #27
I've been wondering where you've been.
BTW, why isn't your buddy Dougie pushing the merger these days?
BTW, why isn't your buddy Dougie pushing the merger these days?
Harold Nads
Member
- Aug 13, 2011
- 54
- 77
creepy
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #29
and your contribution to how AA/US will change the world is....?
blue collar
Veteran
- Mar 17, 2008
- 1,241
- 901
And spectator's contribution is what?? I mean, besides bolstering your rating and your opinion with... your opinion
