American looking to "right-size" the company and staffing levels for the Fall and 2021

[ALUS78]

However, this does not account for represented employees. Despite what the company may want, seniority still rules the day when you are talking about layoffs/job eliminations/--with the exception of voluntary leaves of absence. There are currently 25,000 (give or take a few thousand) flight attendants on the active role. Before #1 (who is probably older than dirt--like me) is laid off or leaves voluntarily, #s 25000 through #2 have to go. Unless I'm missing something, hiring a new AMT seems kind of callous if you know there is going to be a 30% reduction in force among the AMTs because those new hires have to be used for the first X number of AMTs to go. Oh wait, we are talking about AA. As Emily Latella might say, "Never mind." 😵🙂

It's the airline industry not just AA for whom you seem to have a hard on for. In my years I've seen people getting bumped move into a new apartment and called back a week later.Ive seen people transfer to a new station and that station announce their closing the next month.Ive seen people who were retiring forced to go training for six weeks to learn a new computer system.Its is what it is.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

AA management isn't smart enough to say 30% when they only need 15%.

They're simply borrowing the percentages Delta and United came up with for their management reductions. Both airlines seem to be making plans for being 30% smaller during the next 18-24 months, and making sure that they can adjust their cost structures to make up for the drops in income.

Should be a boom for investors when they start expanding again.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Another tactic would be for the asso. to come out and say; we found a way to save jobs; you guys take a 17% pay cut (sound familiar guys?) and save thousands, just so later they can still have layoffs and file for BK and get even more concessions after that. All this is what happened last time. Don't expect any different this time. Say no to pay reductions and concessions. Think about it guys. And look how many years you had to deal with that BK contract last time, it just isn't worth it in the long run...

swamt you were saying just last month you would be willing to work less hours to save jobs.

Change of perspective?

 

[swamt]

AA management isn't smart enough to say 30% when they only need 15%.

They're simply borrowing the percentages Delta and United came up with for their management reductions. Both airlines seem to be making plans for being 30% smaller during the next 18-24 months, and making sure that they can adjust their cost structures to make up for the drops in income.

SWA is also claiming a 30% smaller flight schedules in fall. They are also claiming to have the same level of flights offered as they had at end of 2019, so hopefully we won't get all the way down to the 30% in size, really hoping for a strong return with all the discounts, perks and incentives being offered by SWA to induce the flying public to get back to flying. SWA is also very, very aggressively going after the bus. travelers as well by also opening up outside ticket sales thru 3rd parties for a change using 3 big contenders that we never did prior to now.

 

[swamt]

swamt you were saying just last month you would be willing to work less hours to save jobs.

Change of perspective?

That's at my carrier. very different at AA and/or United.
My union would get clauses and snap back language installed with teeth to back them. The asso at AA would just agree to the concessions, and/or pay cuts, then agree to the layoffs, and once in BK agree again to more crap. All this while never even trying to get teeth in the language to return back tp reg pay once the ride was over and instead remain in a BK contract for 17 years.
Very different world of management and union representation between the carriers.
If I knew I was soon to be laid off, from SWA, yes I would consider reuced pay in lue of layoff as long as we had language returning to reg pay after the downturn goes away meeting certain parameters. I would not take that rout at any other carrier.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

That's at my carrier. very different at AA and/or United.
My union would get clauses and snap back language installed with teeth to back them. The asso at AA would just agree to the concessions, and/or pay cuts, then agree to the layoffs, and once in BK agree again to more crap. All this while never even trying to get teeth in the language to return back tp reg pay once the ride was over and instead remain in a BK contract for 17 years.
Very different world of management and union representation between the carriers.
If I knew I was soon to be laid off, from SWA, yes I would consider reuced pay in lue of layoff as long as we had language returning to reg pay after the downturn goes away meeting certain parameters. I would not take that rout at any other carrier.

I see. Well thank you for the clarification.

 

[ALUS78]

I see. Well thank you for the clarification.

Unfortunately AA, UA separately might layoff more mechanics than SW has. Which means SW has far less AMTS per aircraft than the other big 3.What does that say when times were good?? In the end AA and UA might have less planes then SW and still have more AMTS.

 

[dfw gen]

Unfortunately AA, UA separately might layoff more mechanics than SW has. Which means SW has far less AMTS per aircraft than the other big 3.What does that say when times were good?? In the end AA and UA might have less planes then SW and still have more AMTS.

keep trying. we would still like to leave.

 

[swamt]

Unfortunately AA, UA separately might layoff more mechanics than SW has. Which means SW has far less AMTS per aircraft than the other big 3.What does that say when times were good?? In the end AA and UA might have less planes then SW and still have more AMTS.

Lean and mean has been the way SWA has operated from day one. We (mechanics) tend to like it this way as it allows for O/T thru-out the year since we do have the lowest (I think) number ratio of mechs to a/c. This is what saved all mechs as well as employees at SWA after the 9-11, hopefully it will save us again as long as enough folks takes the leaves and or the Early Out offers, we shall see...

 

[ALUS78]

Lean and mean has been the way SWA has operated from day one. We (mechanics) tend to like it this way as it allows for O/T thru-out the year since we do have the lowest (I think) number ratio of mechs to a/c. This is what saved all mechs as well as employees at SWA after the 9-11, hopefully it will save us again as long as enough folks takes the leaves and or the Early Out offers, we shall see...

And I wish AA was mean and lean, but what stops this? Work rules in our contract?Does that mean the association got a better contract than AMFA? Airline union contracts reflect their business model doesnt it. I've said from day one of the merger AA had to many employees .Of course I dont know the intricacies of the other work groups only fleet and passenger service and related management

 

[swamt]

And I wish AA was mean and lean, but what stops this? Work rules in our contract?Does that mean the association got a better contract than AMFA? Airline union contracts reflect their business model doesnt it. I've said from day one of the merger AA had to many employees .Of course I dont know the intricacies of the other work groups only fleet and passenger service and related management

No. It doesn't mean asso nego a better contract than AMFA and vise-versa. AA has always overstaffed. SWA has always ran lean to avoid the layoffs when times get rough. Your asso likes the fact that AA over hires as that makes more and more dues coming to the union.
And yes I recall you stating that AA had too many employees after the merger, and I too was expecting some furloughs after the merger to thin them out a bit, but I do believe that that was one of the promises from Parker to the unions that he would not furlough if the unions would join him in support of the merger. Now that the merger is done AND they now have the perfect excuse to get away with those furloughs that were needed from the merger and blame it all on the virus pandemic and this way none of the unions can complain about it. I also expect Parker to "over" furlough a bit to take advantage of the pandemic to thin out the ranks as needed. For AA and United this is the perfect storm, if ya will, so they can use it to their advantages on the amounts to furlough. All just my opinion, but would not put it past Parker, or at least AA top leadership whom ever it may be leading them through this downturn...

 

[CremaDiLimone]

on the bad news days, a few dozen posts - mostly about BK. when there's good news..crickets.

as mentioned weeks ago, the domestic side was picking up and now i just read that aa flew on average over 2 times the pax united flew during the last week of may.

do i attribute this to aa being 2x's superior to ua? no. new york/new jersey/california and illinois are states that had not opened up..and these are critical to ua.

bottom line, as virus numbers keep going down all over the world, all the airlines need intl. travel to come back. these 14 day quarantines for non-citizens will keep intl. down and out.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

' LAYOFFS/SCHMLAYOFFS ".
If you have a seniority number, USE The F Thing !

No reduced hours of Pay ! NO give backs ! NO GUILT about Junior Employees ! And, if you have to xfer out of state, and come home on your days off, so be it. If you can't stand the HEAT, then GET-OUT of the F Kitchen !! IT is what it is !

REMEMBER. There was a Time that YOU were on the bottom of the occ. seniority list, and in a vulnerable position !! It's called Paying your Dues !!

 

[Duke787]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willho...-and-united-sending-stock-up-41/#5313d00f7caa


Screw Warren Buffet ............... 🙂

 

[Duke787]

I've seen this before. Hire new people so you can use a crisis to get rid of the ones you don't want. Then if you need to further cut you go after the new people.

Maybe in management, but it's completely up to the individual mechanic if they leave or not.