Nope, cant answer it, as the language was removed in bankruptcy.
There is no correlation between the profit sharing and the pension.
All I know is every group at US except the M&R, Ramp and MTS have to use their own money to save for retirement.
In 2012 US employees got $12 million total in profit sharing.
In 2011 it was $47 million.
And from 2005 till 2011 there was no profit sharing earned by the employees, as the company didnt make a profit.
Also what happens when the company doesnt make a profit?
The pension is fully funded, and gauranteed by the PBGC, can you say the same about profit sharing and a 401k?
And if there was no profit sharing, then it isn't hard to be calculate the benefit... but US IS profitable now and likely will be this year so it is important to know the value of having a defined benefit compared to other options.
Are you saying that US contributes NO retirement benefits to any of its other workgroups? 401K type plans are retirement benefits, 700.
We know what the PBGC does and doesn't do.
The question is whether having an IAM pension is more valuable than other benefits that other work groups have. It isn't a hard question to answer in hindsight.
**BINGO**
So much (whole?) truth in those 8 little letters...
You'll recall that I did in fact say I fight for what I believe to be true.
Since you read that on a thread you started, the question is what you find offensive about someone standing up for his position. Do you not do the same? Has anyone (esp. me) told you or Jacob or anyone else to roll over and accept what I say? Not in a million years.
But it does say that if you or he or anyone else wants to have a discussion, you better be prepared with the facts necessary to prove your point - or acknowledge that your argument is based on emotion and subjectivity.
If there are facts surrounding the discussion, including whether Trainer is profitable or whether DL's ACS policies have cost more jobs and displaced more employees than NW's, then there is evidence to support both sides of the debate. You should bring the evidence that supports your side and I will bring mine.
I expect NO ONE to roll over to me and I am not about to roll over for anyone.
Jacob has repeatedly hammered away about the refinery position based on a single line item in an income statement to make his point.
The reason I have challenged him so many times is because I have researched and found extensive information and supporting evidence to support my positions - even while he has continued to parrot the same statement.
I'm not going to concede anything to anyone who doesn't demonstrate the intellectual energy to look at all sides of an issue, even if it is contrary to their position.
If your intention is just to vent, please say so. I can certainly yield the floor and refrain from responses if you just need to get something off your chest - and facts are not really what you want to deal with.
But the default assumption is that we are conversing and the other parties are free to respond.
I can also get the notion that some LAX-Asia flying might be beneficial to AA strategically, but I need to have some idea of how much AA is gaining by doing that and no one has ever bothered to bring that information forward.
I will acknowledge someone's point, including to 700's demonstration of the value of US' profit sharing... but I'm still waiting to hear what other employee groups get in any retirement benefits compared to IAM actual benefits before we can say with certainty what is more valuable.
I would also guess that IAM benefits are not identical for all employees from each company - but perhaps you and 700 can clarify that.
