American Airlines, CLT detail growth plans
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WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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read again. CLT would have to more than double the amount of facilities it has in order to accommodate just the growth US would need to be the same size that DL has in ATL.
And DL is a two hub airport. WN/FL have nearly 1/3 of the seats from ATL than US has from CLT.
In terms of total boardings by all carriers, ATL boards more than twice the number of passengers as ATL.
Give up the ATL envy.
Charlotte is a great community and they have a nice little airprot but it is nowhere near and never will be in the same league as ATL.
And DL is a two hub airport. WN/FL have nearly 1/3 of the seats from ATL than US has from CLT.
In terms of total boardings by all carriers, ATL boards more than twice the number of passengers as ATL.
Give up the ATL envy.
Charlotte is a great community and they have a nice little airprot but it is nowhere near and never will be in the same league as ATL.
robbedagain
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US alone has roughly 90% of CLT it may be close to that in PHL as well. CLT is also headquarters to numerous companies including bananas--chiquita WT have you been to CLT lately? Last time I was there there is a hell of a lot of EXPANSION room to grow there. theres rumor of them building another 10k plus ft runway not sure if its old news but that has flown around a bit here n there. secondly DL ran from DFW when they had the hub there. I as a kid in the 90s two or less times flew ORF to DFW then onto SMF I do remember CVG was a nice hub for DL at the time
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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yes, I have been to CLT robbed. I have extended family there.
but you don't seem to want to accept that CLT does not have the market or the facilities to ever be anywhere near in the same class of hub as ATL.
And if CLT built all of those facilities that you and 700 seem to think they have space to build, the cost advantage CLT has all disappears because you can't build airports today for what CLT and ATL and other hubs were built at several decades ago.
CLT is simply a cobbled together large hub built around an airport that was never designed to be a large connecting hub that uses 95% of the gates at the airport.
CLT is simply not going to become a whole lot larger. yes, they can upgrade some flights and add more destinations and a few more flights. They will add a few upgrades and perhaps a new runway but they can't rebuild the facility to make it an airport that can handle the traffic ATL has without losing the entire cost advantage that has made CLT succeed as it has.
ATL was built to be a large connecting traffic but still managed to outgrow its facilities. But the now 35 year old midfield terminal complex at ATL was designed to be an integrated group of concourses for connecting traffic.
But AA can and likely will trim some of the int'l flights because they duplicate what exists elsewhere on the AA/US network.
but you don't seem to want to accept that CLT does not have the market or the facilities to ever be anywhere near in the same class of hub as ATL.
And if CLT built all of those facilities that you and 700 seem to think they have space to build, the cost advantage CLT has all disappears because you can't build airports today for what CLT and ATL and other hubs were built at several decades ago.
CLT is simply a cobbled together large hub built around an airport that was never designed to be a large connecting hub that uses 95% of the gates at the airport.
CLT is simply not going to become a whole lot larger. yes, they can upgrade some flights and add more destinations and a few more flights. They will add a few upgrades and perhaps a new runway but they can't rebuild the facility to make it an airport that can handle the traffic ATL has without losing the entire cost advantage that has made CLT succeed as it has.
ATL was built to be a large connecting traffic but still managed to outgrow its facilities. But the now 35 year old midfield terminal complex at ATL was designed to be an integrated group of concourses for connecting traffic.
But AA can and likely will trim some of the int'l flights because they duplicate what exists elsewhere on the AA/US network.
PullUp
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People hate flying through ATL.
CLT is a smaller and more manageable alternative.
And it's cheap to run pax through.
The city loves having the large connecting complex because it attracts more businesses to locate there.
It is accurate to say that the O&D traffic in CLT cannot and will not ever even approach that of ATL.
But for those pax that want to avoid ATL, CLT is a good option for a domestic hub.
CLT is a smaller and more manageable alternative.
And it's cheap to run pax through.
The city loves having the large connecting complex because it attracts more businesses to locate there.
It is accurate to say that the O&D traffic in CLT cannot and will not ever even approach that of ATL.
But for those pax that want to avoid ATL, CLT is a good option for a domestic hub.
prechilill
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- Nov 28, 2002
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Well said. You get it, Josh.737823 said:
US Air brings nothing to the table but some marginal routes and some marginal hubs. PHL? Forget it. CLT? HA! PHX? Inundated with Southwest, US cannot compete with their astronomical costs. DCA has some value, but the DoJ took a huge chunk out of that operation.
And I agree with you about the AA employees, I've heard a few comments from AA pilots talking about the "mess we inherited buying you guys". "APA got you the contract", "APA got you the pay, what were you making before?"... Yep, heard them all.
robbedagain
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one thing though WT is that CLT has the ability to draw traffic from S.C. as well and perhaps eastern tip or so of TN and may be as far north or so as RDU area But as Pullup said CLT is the better alternative to ATL
Josh I think our merger will be a hell of a lot better than say UA/CO now that was a horrible merger all the way around.
prechill you need to remember there was a hell of a lot of US folks who also did not support the merger with AA I for one dont support it but there is nothing the employees like can do bec it was ultimately the shareholders of both airlines that wanted Horton out and wanted the full return of the shares they lost in the ch11 and they got both
Josh I think our merger will be a hell of a lot better than say UA/CO now that was a horrible merger all the way around.
prechill you need to remember there was a hell of a lot of US folks who also did not support the merger with AA I for one dont support it but there is nothing the employees like can do bec it was ultimately the shareholders of both airlines that wanted Horton out and wanted the full return of the shares they lost in the ch11 and they got both
nycbusdriver
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WorldTraveler said:
Yeah.....you're correct.
"A million here, a million there. Pretty soon you're talking about real money." .... Vice President Nelson Rockefeller
traderjake
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PullUp said:
and the the rocky chairs work OK most of the time.
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http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/airport/pages/clt2015.aspx
Upcoming Construction Projects
Terminal Ramp Expansion (West) I
Concourse A Annex
Concourse B
Concourse E
Future Proposed Projects
Terminal Lobby Expansion
Fourth Parallel Runway
International Terminal
Completed Projects
Terminal Eastside Expansion
Yep no room for expansion, lol!
https://www.google.com/search?q=charlotte+douglas+airport+expansion&tbm=isch&imgil=itw0zw0Ec63BuM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcQjYw_Yz9gxelSDN1KCHoIIvJEhLllcUNj_S0X0410NTyDx5UAx%253B940%253B400%253BewCJNxlRJpbM8M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ls3p.com%25252Fprojects%25252Fcivic%25252Fcharlottedouglas-international-airport-concourses-d-e-expansion%25252F&source=iu&usg=__TiCtO48ddxKbABczKtpBOAEjekY%3D&sa=X&ei=AYuOU6itBonIsATi2oDwBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQ9QEwAQ&biw=1366&bih=649#imgdii=_
Upcoming Construction Projects
Terminal Ramp Expansion (West) I
Concourse A Annex
Concourse B
Concourse E
Future Proposed Projects
Terminal Lobby Expansion
Fourth Parallel Runway
International Terminal
Completed Projects
Terminal Eastside Expansion
Yep no room for expansion, lol!
https://www.google.com/search?q=charlotte+douglas+airport+expansion&tbm=isch&imgil=itw0zw0Ec63BuM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcQjYw_Yz9gxelSDN1KCHoIIvJEhLllcUNj_S0X0410NTyDx5UAx%253B940%253B400%253BewCJNxlRJpbM8M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ls3p.com%25252Fprojects%25252Fcivic%25252Fcharlottedouglas-international-airport-concourses-d-e-expansion%25252F&source=iu&usg=__TiCtO48ddxKbABczKtpBOAEjekY%3D&sa=X&ei=AYuOU6itBonIsATi2oDwBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQ9QEwAQ&biw=1366&bih=649#imgdii=_
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #58
again, CLT has to DOUBLE the amount of passengers that fly thru it in order to match ATL.
None of those projects will come close to closing the gap.
Of course there are people that choose the quaint alternative instead of the one that actually connects the world.
every city wants as much air travel as any airline can give them. But the mere fact that US has a much lower average aircraft size says that ATL has higher local demand but that ATL is not overhubbed for the size of the market. CLT has one of the highest percentages of connecting traffic of any hub in the US which says that US operates far more flights from CLT than the market would otherwise support.
US' low labor costs and the low airport costs have allowed that excessive hubbing.
As AA's labor costs rise, the regional carrier crisis intensifies, and as CLT spends money on airport facilities, the economics of CLT as a hub will deteriorate. Add in that AA on the east coast is overhubbed and CLT will have to offer far more to retain the flights US has operated than it did as a US hub.
CLT is very careful to not go too far with increasing costs; AA will be careful to not increase costs too dramatically but keep in mind that other carriers are cutting their costs as well.
ATL as an airport is one of the lowest cost airports in the US and also provides a level of service far above what CLT offers.
Again, CLT has potential but to argue that it will be in the same league as ATL is not realistic.
None of those projects will come close to closing the gap.
Of course there are people that choose the quaint alternative instead of the one that actually connects the world.
every city wants as much air travel as any airline can give them. But the mere fact that US has a much lower average aircraft size says that ATL has higher local demand but that ATL is not overhubbed for the size of the market. CLT has one of the highest percentages of connecting traffic of any hub in the US which says that US operates far more flights from CLT than the market would otherwise support.
US' low labor costs and the low airport costs have allowed that excessive hubbing.
As AA's labor costs rise, the regional carrier crisis intensifies, and as CLT spends money on airport facilities, the economics of CLT as a hub will deteriorate. Add in that AA on the east coast is overhubbed and CLT will have to offer far more to retain the flights US has operated than it did as a US hub.
CLT is very careful to not go too far with increasing costs; AA will be careful to not increase costs too dramatically but keep in mind that other carriers are cutting their costs as well.
ATL as an airport is one of the lowest cost airports in the US and also provides a level of service far above what CLT offers.
Again, CLT has potential but to argue that it will be in the same league as ATL is not realistic.
robbedagain
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so you say but then again changes do occur and itll be for the better.. You seem to count your eggs before they hatch.. may be 700 can list some of the Fortune 500 companies that are based there and or list a few financial institutions there.....
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #60
no need to list any companies, robbed.
travel demand is pretty closely tracked by the DOT and statistics are very accurate by carrier.
The demand for air travel in CLT just doesn't exist in CLT compared to ATL.
Add in that CLT has a much higher percentage of connecting traffic already and the notion that CLT is going to grow beyond the natural growth of the market is, again, not realistic.
travel demand is pretty closely tracked by the DOT and statistics are very accurate by carrier.
The demand for air travel in CLT just doesn't exist in CLT compared to ATL.
Add in that CLT has a much higher percentage of connecting traffic already and the notion that CLT is going to grow beyond the natural growth of the market is, again, not realistic.
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