American Airlines, CLT detail growth plans

[700UW]

Apples and oranges.
 
Take away your hatred and use facts.
 
CLT isnt going anywhere, its the only other airline hub in the Southeast that competes with ATL.

AA tried in RDU and BNA and failed, CO tried in GSO and failed.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.

 

[737823]

STL and PIT both had large concentrations of IAM members not all that different.

Josh

 

[700UW]

This is about CLT and its expansion, not a union.

 

[ChockJockey]

This is about CLT and its expansion, not a union.

 
It doesn't matter.  Until the new AA is completely unorganized and flying an hourly shuttle of all-FC 777's BOS-MIA-TLV he won't be satisfied.

 

[700UW]

He wont ever be satisfied, I wish he would go fly DL and leave AA and US alone, he is nothing but a troll.

 

[robbedagain]

actually josh,  (not to get too side tracked with your HATRED of US) it was the CEO of both companies and the BOD of both that approved the merger
 
but enough of that.
 
As for CLT  CLT is going to see increase and it has the potential to eclipse ATL at some point.
 
So josh since u hate US and the new AA  take ur business else where   its pretty dam sad you have to come here and attempt to destroy livelyhoods of those who help make US and AA what it is today  and im not talking bout the mgmt either

 

[zethya]

The legally binding merger agreement with the DOJ, requires that AA retain "historical" service levels at CLT for 3 years from the date of merger approval. Although I recall reading it somewhere  (I can't locate it now), there is an "escape" provision that the 3 year period can be reduced if the airline industry regresses into a sustained financial downturn. 
 
Although it does not specifically state so, I would assume that the DOJ cannot require that the agreement apply to international routes. Regardless, it would seem a bit illogical to predict that CLT, or any other hub will be significantly downsized (domestically) before the 3 year waiting period. Also, NC is the only Hub state that did not join the DOJ suite, which gives CLT at least 1 stay alive point. Parker also seems to have viewed CLT as his sentimental favorite, if for no other reason than its ability to retain the obscenely low fee structure and associated Ticket Yields (typically even higher than DCA). It appears the consensus is that for the Eastern U.S., JFK (O&D), PHL (O&D+connecting) and MIA (O&D+Latin Connecting), will be the focus for international traffic. IMO, CLT will retain an AA  LHR flight and maybe a seasonal MAD flight, both of which may be propped up with connecting traffic, primarily from non-mainline sourced cities. But if these flights don't perform on O&D after some period, they may be canceled and the connecting traffic moved to JFK/PHL. CLT had a great run (like CVG), but the economics of retaining acceptable margins with the current number of flights/personnel/Hub doesn't  to me seem sustainable, particularly with the impending significant increases in overall labor costs.

 

[Real tired]

 
The legally binding merger agreement with the DOJ, requires that AA retain "historical" service levels at CLT for 3 years from the date of merger approval. Although I recall reading it somewhere  (I can't locate it now), there is an "escape" provision that the 3 year period can be reduced if the airline industry regresses into a sustained financial downturn. 
 
Although it does not specifically state so, I would assume that the DOJ cannot require that the agreement apply to international routes. Regardless, it would seem a bit illogical to predict that CLT, or any other hub will be significantly downsized (domestically) before the 3 year waiting period. Also, NC is the only Hub state that did not join the DOJ suite, which gives CLT at least 1 stay alive point. Parker also seems to have viewed CLT as his sentimental favorite, if for no other reason than its ability to retain the obscenely low fee structure and associated Ticket Yields (typically even higher than DCA). It appears the consensus is that for the Eastern U.S., JFK (O&D), PHL (O&D+connecting) and MIA (O&D+Latin Connecting), will be the focus for international traffic. IMO, CLT will retain an AA  LHR flight and maybe a seasonal MAD flight, both of which may be propped up with connecting traffic, primarily from non-mainline sourced cities. But if these flights don't perform on O&D after some period, they may be canceled and the connecting traffic moved to JFK/PHL. CLT had a great run (like CVG), but the economics of retaining acceptable margins with the current number of flights/personnel/Hub doesn't  to me seem sustainable, particularly with the impending significant increases in overall labor costs.
 

Agreed.
 
They'll never close PIT.  We're too big here..............Oops.

 

[yoyodyne]

 
As for CLT 
 

CLT is going to see increase and it has the potential to eclipse
 
ATL
 

at some point.
 
 

 
 
mmmm, yeah, ok....

 

[WorldTraveler]

As for CLT  CLT is going to see increase and it has the potential to eclipse ATL at some point.

besides the excellent pictures above, a reality check is in order.

DL at ATL offers nearly 1000 flights/day with over 130,000 seats/day and an average aircraft size of 135 seats/flight.

US at CLT offers 650 flts/day with less than 70,000 seats/day and an average aircraft size of just over 100 seats/flight.

DL's average aircraft size at ATL is one of the highest of any US carrier hub and they have the largest hub in the world; US at CLT has one of the highest percentages of connecting traffic and the hub has one of the smallest aircraft sizes indicating the relatively small local market to fill the number of flights that are put into the market. Thus, the notion that CLT will ever eclipse ATL is simply beyond reason.

CLT doesn't have either the space or the market.

Charlotte is a great and vibrant city but it is no Atlanta.

and new AA is overhubbed on the east coast with multiple competing int'l hubs. JFK, PHL, CLT, and MIA all want int'l flights and AA simply cannot sustain them all. The pulldown of the CLT-GIG flight is not going to be the last. CLT is the largest domestic hub in AA's east coast network but other hubs like JFK cannot be sustained without some level of connecting traffic on the east coast which compete with CLT. Several of the MIA-Europe flights are already pulling traffic off of AA's existing JFK traffic; add PHL into the mix, and some of the flights just won't work.

Further, as AA's costs increase and US' advantage pricing is pulled down, many of the O&Ds that US has used to support its int'l flights won't work any more.

A big reason why industry pricing and yields have increased as much as they have is because US' pricing is more rational which means that US' hubs will not sustain the level of traffic that other hubs have.

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
Still remains to be seen how successful this merger will be.  

 
Yeah.  I agree.  $400+ billion in profit last year (more than AA has made in total in their history.)  
 
And that's with almost NONE of the anticipated synergies.
 
What exact definition of "success" would you try to sell to prospective shareholders?

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
It doesn't matter.  Until the new AA is completely unorganized and flying an hourly shuttle of all-FC 777's BOS-MIA-TLV he won't be satisfied.

 
Nah.  Even then he would find the jetway carpeting too dirty and worn.

 

[robbedagain]

i did not care too much for ATL when I flew thru there...  it sucked but it is what it is.   On the other hand  the pics are rather disturbing.   then again i would expect something of similar from dl peeps.     WT  CLT does have room to expand  and   from my perspective  they have more room to expand than ATL  

 

[737823]

Yeah.  I agree.  $400+ billion in profit last year (more than AA has made in total in their history.)  
 
And that's with almost NONE of the anticipated synergies.
 
What exact definition of "success" would you try to sell to prospective shareholders?

$400 billion! Got a link for that? Many of the mergers have a honeymoon phase which AA/US are going through now. Also under US GAAP financial accounting guidelines and the affects of the reorganization for AA are artificially increasing their position. Synergies don't necessarily appear-in fact several analysts for UAL have modeled for dis synergies.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

Yeah.  I agree.  $400+ billion in profit last year (more than AA has made in total in their history.)  
 
And that's with almost NONE of the anticipated synergies.
 
What exact definition of "success" would you try to sell to prospective shareholders?

400 billion is almost ten times their current annual revenues.

I presume you mean 400 million.

and even so AMR reported billion dollar plus profits in the late 90s.
 

i did not care too much for ATL when I flew thru there... it sucked but it is what it is. On the other hand the pics are rather disturbing. then again i would expect something of similar from dl peeps. WT CLT does have room to expand and from my perspective they have more room to expand than ATL

I didn't post the picture of CLT. The picture of ATL is accurate of the F concourse and Int'l terminal. The majority of the concourses at ATL are not "beautiful" but they are functional.

DFW is not a terribly "pretty" airport either.

Neither is CLT. Most US airports are not much to look at.

But ATL is a highly functional and it also handles more passengers than any other airport in the world.

IN case you missed the numbers, DL offers more than twice the number of seats from ATL as US offers from CLT.

CLT does not have the space to build a facility that could handle twice the passengers it currently handles which is what it would take to compete with ATL.

And most importantly, CLT does not have the market that ATL has.

ATL is simply in a class of its own when it comes to hub size. AA at DFW comes after ATL but is still considerably smaller.

US at CLT is yet another step and another class down from AA at DFW in terms of size and the scope of global coverage.

I'm glad you support your home team and respect what US has built at CLT but let's keep it all in the proper context.