American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[AANOTOK]

Only to see YOU (Greedy old senior guy) suffer all the way till you retire.

I don’t want to sell out the future like some desperate pathetic POS slime bags out there.

Those people are the real “””GARBAGE””” out there.

LMAO, OK Davey Boy, whatever you say...

 

[gulfcoast1]

It appears that the few people here on the fleet side willing to vote yes on the rumored last offer are made up of someone who it blatantly anti-union and is willing to agree to the eventual end of of most or all of our jobs, and maybe a couple people ready to retire. One person with a lot of time said even he could not vote yes on it.

I do not know what the company strategy is, but this one will not work. There is no way this would pass by an overwhelming majority. They are going to have to offer at least the TWU or IAM most of what they want. This rumored TA does not do that and there is no reason for the majority of either side to vote yes which is what it will take for it to pass. Maybe many of the people ready to retire would vote yes but there is not nearly enough of them to pass a TA and I doubt the negotiators would bring that back.

I think the company is also losing their leverage with any arbitrator or mediator. Before they could have said we are offering big raises and keeping most work we do now, but we want a small number of things.

Proposing the end of our jobs for newhires and the possible loss of all work except loading and unloading is drastic and a big move away from reasonable. Unless they come back at the last minute and put it all on the table, their strategy will fail.

 

[AANOTOK]

It appears that the few people here on the fleet side willing to vote yes on the rumored last offer are made up of someone who it blatantly anti-union and is willing to agree to the eventual end of of most or all of our jobs, and maybe a couple people ready to retire. One person with a lot of time said even he could not vote yes on it.

I do not know what the company strategy is, but this one will not work. There is no way this would pass by an overwhelming majority. They are going to have to offer at least the TWU or IAM most of what they want. This rumored TA does not do that and there is no reason for the majority of either side to vote yes which is what it will take for it to pass. Maybe many of the people ready to retire would vote yes but there is not nearly enough of them to pass a TA and I doubt the negotiators would bring that back.

I think the company is also losing their leverage with any arbitrator or mediator. Before they could have said we are offering big raises and keeping most work we do now, but we want a small number of things.

Proposing the end of our jobs for newhires and the possible loss of all work except loading and unloading is drastic and a big move away from reasonable. Unless they come back at the last minute and put it all on the table, their strategy will fail.

I have heard nothing about a "rumored TA".

 

[Tim Nelson]

“It does want this contract to realize more future synergies”

We all want things in life don’t we Tim. So what’s the exit strategy for the Company to get those synergies that THEY want?

Members wanna know?

Doesn’t look as if either side has that exit strategy huh?

The company is fine the way things are with the lowest fleet service cost in the industry for TWU members. Your contract blows dude. You have nothing but wage. Nothing. So, I'm not sure exactly why the company would bother with you since your boy Alex already gave the company cross utilization, unless the company got more synergies of back filling jobs with vendors (At small stations only). But most of what Baskett says simply isn't true. The company has offered more than just loading and unloading. they offered all the current cargo, and catering will stay for now. Cripes, even deicing. This is all about future dues and the IAM is leveraging the 16,000 current members for the unborn it doesn't represent. No exit for the Association other than just allow a vote or just wait a few years and see what happens. If the economy goes downward like your boy 700 is posting on his leftard pages, then we will not be so lucky to see this proposal. The next proposal will be significantly reduced if there is any downward pressure on the economy like the union bosses and 700 like to say on their facebook pages.

 

[Tim Nelson]

It appears that the few people here on the fleet side willing to vote yes on the rumored last offer are made up of someone who it blatantly anti-union and is willing to agree to the eventual end of of most or all of our jobs, and maybe a couple people ready to retire. One person with a lot of time said even he could not vote yes on it.

I do not know what the company strategy is, but this one will not work. There is no way this would pass by an overwhelming majority. They are going to have to offer at least the TWU or IAM most of what they want. This rumored TA does not do that and there is no reason for the majority of either side to vote yes which is what it will take for it to pass. Maybe many of the people ready to retire would vote yes but there is not nearly enough of them to pass a TA and I doubt the negotiators would bring that back.

I think the company is also losing their leverage with any arbitrator or mediator. Before they could have said we are offering big raises and keeping most work we do now, but we want a small number of things.

Proposing the end of our jobs for newhires and the possible loss of all work except loading and unloading is drastic and a big move away from reasonable. Unless they come back at the last minute and put it all on the table, their strategy will fail.

You sir are incorrect. The company proposal guaranteed much more than loading and unloading under scope, even included cargo, and catering AND deicing. Period. I'm not sure basket or the other chest thumper saw the proposal unless they are being intellectually dishonest. Will the numbers come down from 16,000? Yes, because the backfilling is proposed to happen at most of the non hubs and non focus cities, through grandfather status. I think this number was estimated at somewhere between 1,000-1,250 jobs over a long process of time until everyone retired or transferred.

At any rate, that's the story. Leverage obviously with the company since these dopes took the $$$ and gave the Holy Grail cross utilization to the company. The company has the lowest cost for fleet in the industry right now in the TWU bankrupt contract so there really isn't any bother on the company side if the union doesn't accept the last and final offer. I guess the union can just wait a few years and see what happens, but what is that going to accomplish other than guarantee me my Saturday Sunday cush job I want to keep instead of merging?

One last thing, not sure what you are talking about with a mediator but mediators are not authoritative and don't even enter section 6 negotiations for quite a while, if ever. The only way a mediator will enter is if both parties agree to one in the "expedited negotiation process". That is a 6 month process where the mediator tries to facilitate things. Didn't work at United then the IAM filed section 6.

I can 100% guarantee everyone that in section 6, the company will not recognize any TA's on any article since it most likely won't be interested in any possible impasse until years down the road. The union would have to present all new proposals and then the company will do what the company does.

The question remains, where is the exit strategy for the chest thumpers? Don't get me wrong, I love my cush job which I won't be able to keep after we merge list, but other than waiting to see what happens in 3-5 years, not sure what else the union bosses can do.

 

[Tim Nelson]

It's good to breathe again and be a non member. I'm much more productive this way pissing in the tent.

 

[Tim Nelson]

are negotiators backed themselves into a spot they simply can't get out.
https://media0.giphy.com/media/f6ek1KcvTWPmw/giphy.gif

 

[WeAAsles]

The company is fine the way things are with the lowest fleet service cost in the industry for TWU members. Your contract blows dude. You have nothing but wage. Nothing. So, I'm not sure exactly why the company would bother with you since your boy Alex already gave the company cross utilization, unless the company got more synergies of back filling jobs with vendors (At small stations only). But most of what Baskett says simply isn't true. The company has offered more than just loading and unloading. they offered all the current cargo, and catering will stay for now. Cripes, even deicing. This is all about future dues and the IAM is leveraging the 16,000 current members for the unborn it doesn't represent. No exit for the Association other than just allow a vote or just wait a few years and see what happens. If the economy goes downward like your boy 700 is posting on his leftard pages, then we will not be so lucky to see this proposal. The next proposal will be significantly reduced if there is any downward pressure on the economy like the union bosses and 700 like to say on their facebook pages.

I’m sorry Tim but please tell your friend Jerry that I’m NOT going to be one of those Senior POS’s that sells out the future for MY own benefit.

I never forgot what I felt about those guys when I hired on myself.

It's good to breathe again and be a non member. I'm much more productive this way pissing in the tent.

Please take your Meds Tim.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I’m sorry Tim but please tell your friend Jerry that I’m NOT going to be one of those Senior POS’s that sells out the future for MY own benefit.

I never forgot what I felt about those guys when I hired on myself.



Please take your Meds Tim.

Me and you may want this to continue for years to come but it isn't fair to stifle the voices of all of the members. NYer was right, the LUS health care, scope, etc was only meant to be temporary and that the company would most likely never agree to all of these demands. The alternative that you don't want to mention is to wait a few years and see what happens. Well, what's going to happen, Weez? Nothing. Nothing except a deal with less on the table if Trump's economy fizzles. Go look at 700, he is posting all kinds of trump trash about how the economy is going to be trashed. Consider for a moment that 700 is correct, then what will happen is a proposal from the company for about half of what's on the table now, then arbitration and we know which way the arbitrator will decide don't we?

You got a better idea? You keep saying you will wait, but how long and for what? You think you will get more than what is currently offered if we wait 3 years?

C'mon Dave, the Flying Speghetti Monster isn't talking to you again is he?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Besides, we saw this play before. IAM pounds chest. IAM stomps feet. Puts out nasty screaming videos. Then agrees to a lesser contract like at United. No protections at all, no scope after 2024, unlimited part time.

 

[ALUS78]

It appears that the few people here on the fleet side willing to vote yes on the rumored last offer are made up of someone who it blatantly anti-union and is willing to agree to the eventual end of of most or all of our jobs, and maybe a couple people ready to retire. One person with a lot of time said even he could not vote yes on it.

I do not know what the company strategy is, but this one will not work. There is no way this would pass by an overwhelming majority. They are going to have to offer at least the TWU or IAM most of what they want. This rumored TA does not do that and there is no reason for the majority of either side to vote yes which is what it will take for it to pass. Maybe many of the people ready to retire would vote yes but there is not nearly enough of them to pass a TA and I doubt the negotiators would bring that back.

I think the company is also losing their leverage with any arbitrator or mediator. Before they could have said we are offering big raises and keeping most work we do now, but we want a small number of things.

Proposing the end of our jobs for newhires and the possible loss of all work except loading and unloading is drastic and a big move away from reasonable. Unless they come back at the last minute and put it all on the table, their strategy will fail.

The union should never comeback with a contract with such scope but if they did and with all of Tim's goodies it would pass maybe 80% or so.But everyone would say they voted no.Again personally I would vote no

 

[ALUS78]

You sir are incorrect. The company proposal guaranteed much more than loading and unloading under scope, even included cargo, and catering AND deicing. Period. I'm not sure basket or the other chest thumper saw the proposal unless they are being intellectually dishonest. Will the numbers come down from 16,000? Yes, because the backfilling is proposed to happen at most of the non hubs and non focus cities, through grandfather status. I think this number was estimated at somewhere between 1,000-1,250 jobs over a long process of time until everyone retired or transferred.

At any rate, that's the story. Leverage obviously with the company since these dopes took the $$$ and gave the Holy Grail cross utilization to the company. The company has the lowest cost for fleet in the industry right now in the TWU bankrupt contract so there really isn't any bother on the company side if the union doesn't accept the last and final offer. I guess the union can just wait a few years and see what happens, but what is that going to accomplish other than guarantee me my Saturday Sunday cush job I want to keep instead of merging?

One last thing, not sure what you are talking about with a mediator but mediators are not authoritative and don't even enter section 6 negotiations for quite a while, if ever. The only way a mediator will enter is if both parties agree to one in the "expedited negotiation process". That is a 6 month process where the mediator tries to facilitate things. Didn't work at United then the IAM filed section 6.

I can 100% guarantee everyone that in section 6, the company will not recognize any TA's on any article since it most likely won't be interested in any possible impasse until years down the road. The union would have to present all new proposals and then the company will do what the company does.

The question remains, where is the exit strategy for the chest thumpers? Don't get me wrong, I love my cush job which I won't be able to keep after we merge list, but other than waiting to see what happens in 3-5 years, not sure what else the union bosses can do.

The company needs to come out with another Jetnet proposal

 

[AANOTOK]

OK OK Davey, I've stopped laughing. Mind your own business if you can and I'll mind mine.
Oh, and I don't report people, why do you make up stuff, better known as lying.
Ummm, if you put your name out there Davey and are proud of it and criticize others for not doing, no, you have no leg to stand on. do some research Mr. Researcher.

 

[ALUS78]

You sir are incorrect. The company proposal guaranteed much more than loading and unloading under scope, even included cargo, and catering AND deicing. Period. I'm not sure basket or the other chest thumper saw the proposal unless they are being intellectually dishonest. Will the numbers come down from 16,000? Yes, because the backfilling is proposed to happen at most of the non hubs and non focus cities, through grandfather status. I think this number was estimated at somewhere between 1,000-1,250 jobs over a long process of time until everyone retired or transferred.

At any rate, that's the story. Leverage obviously with the company since these dopes took the $$$ and gave the Holy Grail cross utilization to the company. The company has the lowest cost for fleet in the industry right now in the TWU bankrupt contract so there really isn't any bother on the company side if the union doesn't accept the last and final offer. I guess the union can just wait a few years and see what happens, but what is that going to accomplish other than guarantee me my Saturday Sunday cush job I want to keep instead of merging?

One last thing, not sure what you are talking about with a mediator but mediators are not authoritative and don't even enter section 6 negotiations for quite a while, if ever. The only way a mediator will enter is if both parties agree to one in the "expedited negotiation process". That is a 6 month process where the mediator tries to facilitate things. Didn't work at United then the IAM filed section 6.

I can 100% guarantee everyone that in section 6, the company will not recognize any TA's on any article since it most likely won't be interested in any possible impasse until years down the road. The union would have to present all new proposals and then the company will do what the company does.

The question remains, where is the exit strategy for the chest thumpers? Don't get me wrong, I love my cush job which I won't be able to keep after we merge list, but other than waiting to see what happens in 3-5 years, not sure what else the union bosses can do.

To sum it up the union blew it didn't they

 

[WeAAsles]

OK OK Davey, I've stopped laughing. Mind your own business if you can and I'll mind mine.
Oh, and I don't report people, why do you make up stuff, better known as lying.
Ummm, if you put your name out there Davey and are proud of it and criticize others for not doing, no, you have no leg to stand on. do some research Mr. Researcher.

My friends call me Davey. You’re not my friend and I wouldn’t ever want to be your friend either. I don’t like or respect you and it’s your words that make me feel that way.

We just don’t share the same Worldview. But good luck to you in your life anyway.