American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Racer X]

I’d like it if someone can explain this part of the last update to me?

“The company’s negotiating committee continues to make proposals that contradict what their Chairman and CEO Doug Parker and President Robert Isom have publicly promised our members from the beginning of negotiations. In stark contrast, American’s proposal will eliminate 2,500 AMT jobs, not include facilities maintenance work protections and allows the outsourcing of almost any fleet service work.”

This is the first time I have heard anything about any proposal from the Company that would give them the ability to “Outsource almost ANY Fleet Service work”

That’s the part I’m having a problem with and would like explained and that SHOULD have been explained in the “Official” update?

I can speak from the IAM language side....we have terminology that say “ when and where do directed”. That is work that we can perform if the company see fit. It is NOT contractually protected work. The company wanting “ The ability” sounds very much like they want to expand the “When and where-so directed” language.

 

[WeAAsles]

I can see where the confusion comes from. I’m not so quick to say that GP was incorrect when his memo came out. I’m also not going to say the ASSOC does not put out accurate info.. Negotiations sometimes turn on a dime.. it very well may have been going well that week and now ....Well, NOT SO GOOD. Although they appear contradictory, Both could actually be accurate for when they were put out.

From how I understood it last week was pretty much just supposed to be spent presenting the Company with our counterproposals in which case IMO the Association should have just put this part out for the update without all the added dramatics.

“August 10, 2018

Brothers and Sisters,

The Association Executive Negotiating Committee met with American Airlines this week in Washington, D.C. to continue the discussion about Scope proposals. Your Executive Committee presented the company with comprehensive proposals. The Association proposals are reasonable and recognize the sacrifices our members have collectively made through our company’s bankruptcies by securing our work into the future.”

I can speak from the IAM language side....we have terminology that say “ when and where do directed”. That is work that we can perform if the company see fit. It is NOT contractually protected work. The company wanting “ The ability” sounds very much like they want to expand the “When and where-so directed” language.

I’m sure the adding of Catering and Deicing in DFW and some other places might not have been backed off of just yet which would constitute an expansion of that language “When and where so directed”

But the update makes it sound as if they want to expand that language to almost any or all the work we currently perform which I have to be honest sounds kind of far fetched and could potentially fall into fear mongering territory if it’s not true.

To be honest.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I’d like it if someone can explain this part of the last update to me?

“The company’s negotiating committee continues to make proposals that contradict what their Chairman and CEO Doug Parker and President Robert Isom have publicly promised our members from the beginning of negotiations. In stark contrast, American’s proposal will eliminate 2,500 AMT jobs, not include facilities maintenance work protections and allows the outsourcing of almost any fleet service work.”

This is the first time I have heard anything about any proposal from the Company that would give them the ability to “Outsource almost ANY Fleet Service work”

That’s the part I’m having a problem with and would like explained and that SHOULD have been explained in the “Official” update?

imo its false. They have said this before and Parker denied and said thats not true.
What I think it means is that Parker is only protecting current employees and the unborn may only have a job when and where directed. Or it may be mimic(ing) the UA contract by putting a witches hourglass on the contract that makes work expire on x day.
More likely, the update is just bullshit because if that were true then Sito would only have to post that language and Parker would never be able to do a townhall again and we would be unified and clearly see a big enemy.
Its fake.

 

[Talos]

LOL The “Steak” thread sure has taken on. Life of its own. TOO FUNNY

It is natural for any group to want equal standing. The IAM did a good job taking care of their members with this arrangement, the TWU did not. The company has used it to their advantage which is to be expected. Can't blame the IAM or their members for any of it. At the same time you can't think the TWU people are going to sit around and not be disturbed. The real recipient of the anger should be the TWU for making some very very bad business decisions. Then you see the mechanics get a card drive going and the TWU should not be surprised. Some of the bad business from the TWU was so obvious I wondered who is running this show, Bozo the clown? At any rate I myself am glad for the LUS guys having a good deal. I'm not very high on what the LUS mgmt is doing at DFW. Not impressed with mgmt. They get rid of good people and that's a mistake.

 

[SkydrolJunkie]

I’d like it if someone can explain this part of the last update to me?

“The company’s negotiating committee continues to make proposals that contradict what their Chairman and CEO Doug Parker and President Robert Isom have publicly promised our members from the beginning of negotiations. In stark contrast, American’s proposal will eliminate 2,500 AMT jobs, not include facilities maintenance work protections and allows the outsourcing of almost any fleet service work.”

This is the first time I have heard anything about any proposal from the Company that would give them the ability to “Outsource almost ANY Fleet Service work”

That’s the part I’m having a problem with and would like explained and that SHOULD have been explained in the “Official” update?

Hell, the organization putting out these updates don't even have the balls to sign their name to it.

Fraternally,
Your Association Executive Negotiating Committee

How then are we supposed to believe it to be true?

 

[WeAAsles]

It is natural for any group to want equal standing. The IAM did a good job taking care of their members with this arrangement, the TWU did not. The company has used it to their advantage which is to be expected. Can't blame the IAM or their members for any of it. At the same time you can't think the TWU people are going to sit around and not be disturbed. The real recipient of the anger should be the TWU for making some very very bad business decisions. Then you see the mechanics get a card drive going and the TWU should not be surprised. Some of the bad business from the TWU was so obvious I wondered who is running this show, Bozo the clown? At any rate I myself am glad for the LUS guys having a good deal. I'm not very high on what the LUS mgmt is doing at DFW. Not impressed with mgmt. They get rid of good people and that's a mistake.

I’m sorry but no this writing is not exactly correct.

AA TWU gave concessions and lost many items back in 2003. 2 years later all the other Airlines went into Bankruptcy and gave up even more which then all the Industry concessions lasted many years.

IAM US Members were in Section 6 Negotiations for a new Contract when AMR announced Bankruptcy itself. IAM US Members only finally gained a “decent” Contract when a Judge gave the green light for the AA/US Merger giving Management the financial ability to close those negotiations.

TWU on the other hand are still living out our own Bankruptcy Contract which comes to an end (Amendable) next month. We’ll see what happens from there?

 

[WeAAsles]

imo its false. They have said this before and Parker denied and said thats not true.
What I think it means is that Parker is only protecting current employees and the unborn may only have a job when and where directed. Or it may be mimic(ing) the UA contract by putting a witches hourglass on the contract that makes work expire on x day.
More likely, the update is just bullshit because if that were true then Sito would only have to post that language and Parker would never be able to do a townhall again and we would be unified and clearly see a big enemy.
Its fake.

Parker and Isom are both well known liars or better yet deceptive spinners of the truth. What they say is usually nothing more than a version of left out half truths. They NEVER talk about the fine print.

I’ve seen people quote things that were “in writing” to Parker and he still denies them. Precisely the reason I didn’t bother to go to the last Townhall here in MIA.

It’s nothing more than a Circus. Not going to waste my time.

 

[swamt]

two weeks

Yea right. I actually wish this were true for the members, but it looks totally unrealistic.

swamp, AMP just has to keep spreading. I dont think there is much resistence in ord, AMP is known and its got alot of support. It just has to have the right leadership. One guy who started it was ridiculously paranoid and i just hope that this isnt a one man band. AMP has a better chance than amfa did. Its a much better option than amfa.

I am in total agreement with you that AMP was a better choice than AMFA at this time.

 

[swamt]

OldGuy@AA,

We are trying to secure better wages, retirement, scope and insurance for all. You would think we would all stick together on these. Geez, unbelievable.

P. Rez

Gee, Now you call for all to stick together, huh?
Where was the IAM, all sticking together, when the TWU was doing the informational picketing?? Huh P. Rez???
Now, don't get me wrong here, I agree with your point of all sticking together, however, when the IAM alienated the TWU of any support during a very important time to do so blew all those chances of "all sticking together".
You see P Rez, this aasso. and mainly the IAM side decided to alienate the membership with support and now NC members are begging for "all to stick together" I can only say good luck with that. The AMP card drive is going to happen and this asso. brought it all on themselves by dividing the membership from the get go.
I, as well as others on here, have told you this time would come where the NC (asso.) would ask for the same support that the TWU was asking for during the info. pickets, and how do ya think it will turn out? Probably the very same way it did during the info pickets. And BTW; The TWU way out numbers the IAM folks. That's called, coming back to bite you in the a$$...

 

[Talos]

I’m sorry but no this writing is not exactly correct.

AA TWU gave concessions and lost many items back in 2003. 2 years later all the other Airlines went into Bankruptcy and gave up even more which then all the Industry concessions lasted many years.

IAM US Members were in Section 6 Negotiations for a new Contract when AMR announced Bankruptcy itself. IAM US Members only finally gained a “decent” Contract when a Judge gave the green light for the AA/US Merger giving Management the financial ability to close those negotiations.

TWU on the other hand are still living out our own Bankruptcy Contract which comes to an end (Amendable) next month. We’ll see what happens from there?

It is true that back in 2003 there was no way around giving all that we did. All were going to get nailed one way or the other. My point earlier is in the making of the Association. I view that as a severe mistake by the TWU. It's like the AFLCIO came and said can you please give up your advantage, and take a joint deal instead that will complicate matters quite a bit. I just thought this was a very bad choice by the TWU. Like I said before, I'm glad the LUS people got a nice deal, and we're not starving either. I just look at how things went down and without a vote, and feel it was a big mistake by the TWU.

 

[WeAAsles]

It is true that back in 2003 there was no way around giving all that we did. All were going to get nailed one way or the other. My point earlier is in the making of the Association. I view that as a severe mistake by the TWU. It's like the AFLCIO came and said can you please give up your advantage, and take a joint deal instead that will complicate matters quite a bit. I just thought this was a very bad choice by the TWU. Like I said before, I'm glad the LUS people got a nice deal, and we're not starving either. I just look at how things went down and without a vote, and feel it was a big mistake by the TWU.

Duly noted Talos. But the one thing I really have always had a hard time stomaching particularly in relation to this site Airline Forums is how many times a subject needs to be harped on. This topic will I’m sure be another one when we check in here 10 years from now will still be spinning it’s wheels of redundancy.

I think people repeat themselves more here because they can hide behind an Alias and not have to worry about others saying “WTF is wrong with you” Any behavior is not held to account because it’s all really written by “anonymous” (Why I don’t take “some” of those posters too seriously or give them much credibility)

Anyway to respond though. I think yes without the Association we would have been done sooner. But I also think without the Association we’d be earning less than we are right now and we wouldn’t have the potential we have currently of making even more? That’s my opinion and I’m sticking with it.

 

[swamt]

Thats flat out b.s. 6 yrs n counting. N thats all SW wld offer in back pay. How many yrs for new hire to go to top scale?

6 years robbed. Most will claim 5 years but we have a thereafter year (6) that jumps the mechanic by over $8 in base pay.

 

[robbedagain]

that's really incredible it seems as though mgmt. wants u all to have a crappy deal you all keep up the good fight bro best of luck to u

 

[Tim Nelson]

Parker and Isom are both well known liars or better yet deceptive spinners of the truth. What they say is usually nothing more than a version of left out half truths. They NEVER talk about the fine print.

I’ve seen people quote things that were “in writing” to Parker and he still denies them. Precisely the reason I didn’t bother to go to the last Townhall here in MIA.

It’s nothing more than a Circus. Not going to waste my time.

i think the update should present parkers scope proposal. If there is much contracting out then...it wont be good for management with furious coworkers.

 

[WeAAsles]

i think the update should present parkers scope proposal. If there is much contracting out then...it wont be good for management with furious coworkers.

Tim any time you and I are on the same page I almost become frightened to death that maybe I too am losing my marbles.

But we’re on the same page.

According to the Company advertisers they wanted Catering and Deicing only in select non East Coast cities. Suddenly according to the last Association update they claim (I guess) that the Company has modified their position and want language that gives them the ability to take nearly ALL of our work?

I’m not saying those Rats for the Company couldn’t have done a shifty180, but if they have we need more information than the last basically pathetic update that gives us nothing but lip service.

TWU/IAM Association Leaders. I won’t speak for Maintenance since it’s pretty apparent how some of them are feeling but I can tell you from all the Social Media sites I visit Fleet Service/Agents have grown completely apathetic. And it’s your absolutely horrible updates that are part of the cause.