American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[MetalMover]

ABSOLUTELY their voices need to count more than anyone else first. (Why do you think I tolerate Al)

BUT in 1995 the Senior Fleet guys negotiated and voted in a contract that established Junior FSC which was the “greediest” thing ever seen at AA. ($10.00 per hour TOS after 10 years)

I’ve always supported BALANCE. How to lean the most on those Senior guys wants and needs but not screw those below including myself and the unborn. No I don’t think the unborn should be just a footstool for the rest of us.



Jobs went away because of Deregulation starting in 1978 and us not wanting or accepting to work for what the LCC’s were paying. Jobs went away because we voted for more money over them. Jobs went away because of concessions and Bankruptcies.

As far as the “They can do that” line. The ONLY times I’ve ever heard that is in regards to what’s in our Contracts. If it’s not a violation of our CBA then yes, they can do that.

I’d rather hear they can do that with an explanation why then get some BS artist Union Rep trying to tell me what he thinks I want to hear.

How much longer are you willing to go without a raise in pay and benefits? Better language over all? Just to protect the unborn? Years?
Doesn't pay the bills my friend.

 

[WeAAsles]

How much longer are you willing to go without a raise in pay and benefits? Better language over all? Just to protect the unborn? Years?
Doesn't pay the bills my friend.

C’mon Metal we can’t exactly say that we’re starving here now can we after those raises 2 years ago?

We also may not like it but we have Contracts (Forced on us yes) that are only now coming up for renewal. I also think that it was ALWAYS the intention of the Secured Creditors of AMR that we were going to have to live the entire 5 years under those deals? It seems like we’re slow rolling right in to September.

And I don’t control how much longer I’m willing to go. I’m just one guy out of 30,000. I can only surf the wave.

Edit: Don’t forget I picked 6 Months on that poll. Very glad I was wrong actually.

 

[MetalMover]

C’mon Metal we can’t exactly say that we’re starving here now can we after those raises 2 years ago?

We also may not like it but we have Contracts (Forced on us yes) that are only now coming up for renewal. I also think that it was ALWAYS the intention of the Secured Creditors of AMR that we were going to have to live the entire 5 years under those deals? It seems like we’re slow rolling right in to September.

And I don’t control how much longer I’m willing to go. I’m just one guy out of 30,000. I can only surf the wave.

Edit: Don’t forget I picked 6 Months on that poll. Very glad I was wrong actually.

No one said anyone is starving. I asked you how long are you willing to wait to protect the unborn?
Not just about wages. And we are well beyond the proverbial 5 years.

Just keep in mind, the unborn that the good TWU unionists want to protect will sell out the senior person in a heartbeat.
These are NOT the good old days of good unionism. The newer generation have their own priorities. and they happen to be different than our priorities when we were the newer generation.

 

[WeAAsles]

No one said anyone is starving. I asked you how long are you willing to wait to protect the unborn?
Not just about wages. And we are well beyond the proverbial 5 years.

Just keep in mind, the unborn that the good TWU unionists want to protect will sell out the senior person in a heartbeat.
These are NOT the good old days of good unionism. The newer generation have their own priorities. and they happen to be different than our priorities when we were the newer generation.

That generation are “OUR” Children. So I have to ask who taught them to be the people you say they are today? Maybe the apples don’t fall far from the trees in reality?

I’m not looking to “protect” the unborn but I want to see the unborn have some opportunities. Deep down I don’t want the unborn to have it too easy though because Lord knows we didn’t. They need life to toughen them up some.

BTW honestly Metal most new hires I’ve worked with have been very appreciative and humble about the job actually. A few little entitled brats here and there but for the most part only a handful. (Here in MIA)

 

[MetalMover]

That generation are “OUR” Children. So I have to ask who taught them to be the people you say they are today? Maybe the apples don’t fall far from the trees in reality?

I’m not looking to “protect” the unborn but I want to see the unborn have some opportunities. Deep down I don’t want the unborn to have it too easy though because Lord knows we didn’t. They need life to toughen them up some.

BTW honestly Metal most new hires I’ve worked with have been very appreciative and humble about the job actually. A few little entitled brats here and there but for the most part only a handful. (Here in MIA)

Opportunities, of course. But when we put the needs of those who don't even exist yet before our own, we fall further and further behind the eight ball.
As far as the new hires, I'll tell you about those I know. They don't believe in putting their time in. They want the best vacation picks and shift/day off choices NOW!
I won't even address their work ethic and carefree attitude toward the job.

 

[WeAAsles]

Opportunities, of course. But when we put the needs of those who don't even exist yet before our own, we fall further and further behind the eight ball.
As far as the new hires, I'll tell you about those I know. They don't believe in putting their time in. They want the best vacation picks and shift/day off choices NOW!
I won't even address their work ethic and carefree attitude toward the job.

Aw c’mon man they can’t all be like that? Not to rip on my old pal Chilokie here but that comment sounded very “Archie Bunker” like to me.

Besides I remember guys like that when I hired on. Guys sniffing the asses of the Senior Crew Chiefs to try and get an easy gig. Buying them coffees.

When they went to bid it was still Wed/Thu off for their asses, lol.

BTW trust me BY FAR am I not going to put them above guys like you. I may argue with some of you even older than me farts but if some snot nosed little punk tried it, I’d slam him something stupid.

To me you don’t get to start “earning” an opinion until you hit at least 5 years. (But I’ll listen before then though)

 

[MetalMover]

Aw c’mon man they can’t all be like that? Not to rip on my old pal Chilokie here but that comment sounded very “Archie Bunker” like to me.

Besides I remember guys like that when I hired on. Guys sniffing the asses of the Senior Crew Chiefs to try and get an easy gig. Buying them coffees.

When they went to bid it was still Wed/Thu off for their asses, lol.

BTW trust me BY FAR am I not going to put them above guys like you. I may argue with some of you even older than me farts but if some snot nosed little punk tried it, I’d slam him something stupid.

To me you don’t get to start “earning” an opinion until you hit at least 5 years. (But I’ll listen before then though)

You haven't met my bunch yet. It's a generational thing.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW the USPS and the NYS Court System has a 5 year probation period for new hires.

 

[WeAAsles]

You haven't met my bunch yet. It's a generational thing.

I think it’s the Probation time. 4 Months is ridiculous. A bad apple can do that time standing on his head.

I think it should be a year for Fleet and 3 years for Maintenance.

Oh and the last Generation would drum you out in a Heartbeat if you were a bad Apple. For some reason our Generation is too chickenchit to be called a rat.

I say for a Proby rat away. (Get him OUT)

 

[Tim Nelson]

Now the real story. Nowhere near an agreement much less an AIP or T/A.
I was gonna ask where all the other "MAJOR" articles were at but you took care of that for me.

two weeks

 

[Buck]

Buck congratulations on your money earning capabilities and all those extra hours you put in to generate even more.

More power to ya.

I guess you didn't research adulthood before you selected your profession, I understand I am not in the field I originally selected.

 

[Buck]

The “loudmouth” is the “greedy prick” who doesn’t want to let our Negotiators finish because he saw all the MONEY the Company was offering and he has a TON of seniority so he has nothing to worry about AND he’s planning to retire in 4 years so he wants to BANK as much into his retirement account as he possibly can.

With people like you out there I hope they hold off and don’t accept ANYTHING until the day after you walk out the door.

Where is your Line in the Sand? What needs to be done in your opinion?

 

[Tim Nelson]

All the more reasons to sign a card and get this asso. removed.


Time to fire the asso.



Racer, speaking from experience; you are correct. Neither side would like a third party setting dates and running the nego's process. However your company will love how much more the mediator would stretch these nego's out.

swamp, AMP just has to keep spreading. I dont think there is much resistence in ord, AMP is known and its got alot of support. It just has to have the right leadership. One guy who started it was ridiculously paranoid and i just hope that this isnt a one man band. AMP has a better chance than amfa did. Its a much better option than amfa.

 

[WeAAsles]

I guess you didn't research adulthood before you selected your profession, I understand I am not in the field I originally selected.

When I was a kid I had a job interview set up to be an apprentice Bartender at the Hilton Hotel in Manhattan but I sprained my ankle the day before and that gig fell through. Do you have any clue how much money Bartenders at those Hotels make? Ouch.

Anyway I guess ultimately I was cut out to be a simple humble laborer. I’m not sure but it doesn’t again sound like you have much respect for laborers?

Do you think I would have been happier if I had went to Trade School?

 

[WeAAsles]

Where is your Line in the Sand? What needs to be done in your opinion?

First my line in the sand for what? If you’re asking me that question with money on your mind you’re asking the wrong guy. I’ve made a good life out of living within and now well below my means. Right now I could easily live out the rest of my career with what I’m making right now not even counting all the rest that I know is coming soon enough in time.

So if I’m wrong can you please be more specific on your line in the sand comment?

What needs to be done is the thing that you DON’T want to do. IMO you’re doing the exact and complete opposite of what you should do and you’ve probably been doing it most of your career.

In other words you’re swimming against the stream and you’re not a Salmon fish.