American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[MetalMover]

That guy that wears the association tee shirt proudly, when he walks around the ramp do people try to wipe their ass on His shirt tail?

I'm still waiting for mine! I'm running low on oil change rags!

 

[Racer X]

I and others have been saying let us have more input, let us decide. The members can vote it in or send a strong message. Apparently Alex and the TWU are being lap dogs to the IAM and allowing their leadership to call the shots and drag us into Section 6. Obviously they benefit and LAA/TWU must work under the BK contract another 18-24 months. Well played Association.

AA
How do you think they benefit by section 6? By keeping IAM medical? Without going to section 6 the medical issue remains. So Why would the IAM WANT section 6? The only other option than standing your ground is to capitulate. If that happens then everyone will say that the ASSOCIATION gave in! Also...I believe neither side wants to have a 3rd party dictate when and how often they meet.

 

[MetalMover]

AA
How do you think they benefit by section 6? By keeping IAM medical? Without going to section 6 the medical issue remains. So Why would the IAM WANT section 6? The only other option than standing your ground is to capitulate. If that happens then everyone will say that the ASSOCIATION gave in! Also...I believe neither side wants to have a 3rd party dictate when and how often they meet.

So we are ALL being held hostage by the IAM medical!

 

[NYer]

So we are ALL being held hostage by the IAM medical!

Scope is the current major issue, the medical won't survive.

 

[MetalMover]

Scope is the current major issue, the medical won't survive.

You may very well be right. But i was responding to Racer's post which only mentioned IAM medical. not Scope!

 

[AANOTOK]

AA
How do you think they benefit by section 6? By keeping IAM medical? Without going to section 6 the medical issue remains. So Why would the IAM WANT section 6? The only other option than standing your ground is to capitulate. If that happens then everyone will say that the ASSOCIATION gave in! Also...I believe neither side wants to have a 3rd party dictate when and how often they meet.

Racer, let me ask a simple question. What is the harm in letting the members have a voice? What is the Association afraid of. We obviously know what happens without a vote, why not see what happens with the MEMBERS speaking. Despite what one loudmouth contiinually claims here, there is a desire for many to have a say now.

 

[swamt]

I don't mind.

http://www.local591.com/docs/Association Bulletin 810[1].pdf

Al, without even more clarity from the Association, you can bet your bottom dollar Section 6 is is a reality. AA wanted to outsource a few Fleet jobs originally, but now the ASS says almost all Fleet jobs have the potential to be outsourced. Of course as usual, they provide no details. In all honesty, I strongly believe the IAM side of the ASS wants Section 6.

Wait a second. Just a few days ago the asso. said they were making huge progress with scope, outsourcing and job protections. Didn't know the asso. means progress for the company to send everything out. My God, you would think the asso. would brag about progress in their favor NOT the companies favor.
I knew that posting that the asso. was making great progress was an evil attempt at "trying" to slow down the AMP card drive when in fact the negotiations is going in the exact opposite direction.
KEEP THOSE CARDS COMING IN GUYS!!!

 

[swamt]

I hope AMP is successful. That would be 3 big inhouse labor organizations on the property. Patco (dispatchers?) isnt AA exclusive.

I also think our ramp needs to stop contracting out our union to the Association and should fire it and insource the work like our stews and pilots did.

And two that have fired the TWU when AMP gets in.
You guys can rest assured that now that the company is trying to outsource all fleet, your fleet union will fight to the end and includes sec 6 as you have stated from the get go. Good luck Tim, you guys are going to need a lot of it with this fiasco asso.

 

[WeAAsles]

Racer, let me ask a simple question. What is the harm in letting the members have a voice? What is the Association afraid of. We obviously know what happens without a vote, why not see what happens with the MEMBERS speaking. Despite what one loudmouth contiinually claims here, there is a desire for many to have a say now.

The “loudmouth” is the “greedy prick” who doesn’t want to let our Negotiators finish because he saw all the MONEY the Company was offering and he has a TON of seniority so he has nothing to worry about AND he’s planning to retire in 4 years so he wants to BANK as much into his retirement account as he possibly can.

With people like you out there I hope they hold off and don’t accept ANYTHING until the day after you walk out the door.

 

[swamt]

nothing hardball. Ours is done. Period. Mx is almost done after this week. They just put the negative spin on it so when it comes out, they can say they busted their asses. What is telling is that neither party filed section 6 like me and NYer said.

Mx almost came to an agreement this week. maybe only one week is left. below is the mx negotiation chart put out a few hours ago. Only 3 items remain, each of which is 95% already completed. Not sure what the statement "almost all fleet jobs could be gone" cuz i got word that fleet is a wrap and this week was focused on MX.
View attachment 13170

You forgot to post the second chart. The major items are still not complete. By the way, why did you state the chart you posted is from " a few hours ago". When it is the same chart dated 7/26?

Now the real story. Nowhere near an agreement much less an AIP or T/A.
I was gonna ask where all the other "MAJOR" articles were at but you took care of that for me.

 

[WeAAsles]

Scope is the current major issue, the medical won't survive.

So because YOU have always maintained that the IAM lower cost Medical won’t survive you have to be “mean” and continue to push their faces in it? Yes your continuing to say that something THEY have that YOU don’t won’t survive is plain and simply being “mean” and I hope these guys remember this when you sit in a room with them one on one.

BTW I can be mean too.

 

[swamt]

Actually, NOT a useless update!
Not sure about other stations, but at mine, local union reps have been saying that they "really shouldn't say anything, but we are very close to an agreement because we are making alot of progress on scope., blah blah blah." Well they DID say something!
And after reading this update, I think it is safe to say that the union and ASS are "allowing' this rumor to spread so as to thwart and slow down the AMP card effort....
So actually I believe this update. No matter how much tough talk the ASS spews out, the proof is in the status of negotiations.
No one seems to be budging.
So although it seems to be the same useless update, it actually means ain't nuthin happen'!

All the more reasons to sign a card and get this asso. removed.

I and others have been saying let us have more input, let us decide. The members can vote it in or send a strong message. Apparently Alex and the TWU are being lap dogs to the IAM and allowing their leadership to call the shots and drag us into Section 6. Obviously they benefit and LAA/TWU must work under the BK contract another 18-24 months. Well played Association.

Time to fire the asso.

AA
How do you think they benefit by section 6? By keeping IAM medical? Without going to section 6 the medical issue remains. So Why would the IAM WANT section 6? The only other option than standing your ground is to capitulate. If that happens then everyone will say that the ASSOCIATION gave in! Also...I believe neither side wants to have a 3rd party dictate when and how often they meet.

Racer, speaking from experience; you are correct. Neither side would like a third party setting dates and running the nego's process. However your company will love how much more the mediator would stretch these nego's out.

 

[AANOTOK]

Racer, I had a simple question for YOU and some little boy felt the need to inject himself into ones conversation AGAIN like he usually does. Of course with the name calling "Rock Thrower" and "Greedy Prick". This little kid has issue that should of been dealt with years ago, but he was failed and look what it has manifested into. I'm sure with >SPIT< absent and not giving out his "feel good" green and gold to the young one, it can have him a little down. But I digress...I had one other question for you Racer, is medical your #1 priority. I know there are many things, but would your healthcare be your must, and is it a must, can it be negotiated to say meet in the middle.

 

[MetalMover]

The “loudmouth” is the “greedy prick” who doesn’t want to let our Negotiators finish because he saw all the MONEY the Company was offering and he has a TON of seniority so he has nothing to worry about AND he’s planning to retire in 4 years so he wants to BANK as much into his retirement account as he possibly can.

With people like you out there I hope they hold off and don’t accept ANYTHING until the day after you walk out the door.

I guess us senior guys shouldn't worry at least a little about our retirement? There may be hundreds of older members, and not just mechanics, who have had enough and want out. Doesn't their voice count for anything? Their opinion's? Needs? Wants? We all pay union dues.
It's not necessarily just about "I GOT MINE," but more about "I have had enough of getting screwed."

WeAAz, one thing is for sure.......One way or another, the company will get what it seeks. And it will be backed up by the union's "they can do that, brother."
I have seen it over and over again. Jobs went anyway.

 

[WeAAsles]

I guess us senior guys shouldn't worry at least a little about our retirement? There may be hundreds of older members, and not just mechanics, who have had enough and want out. Doesn't their voice count for anything? Their opinion's? Needs? Wants? We all pay union dues.
It's not necessarily just about "I GOT MINE," but more about "I have had enough of getting screwed."

ABSOLUTELY their voices need to count more than anyone else first. (Why do you think I tolerate Al)

BUT in 1995 the Senior Fleet guys negotiated and voted in a contract that established Junior FSC which was the “greediest” thing ever seen at AA. ($10.00 per hour TOS after 10 years)

I’ve always supported BALANCE. How to lean the most on those Senior guys wants and needs but not screw those below including myself and the unborn. No I don’t think the unborn should be just a footstool for the rest of us.

WeAAz, one thing is for sure.......One way or another, the company will get what it seeks. And it will be backed up by the union's "they can do that, brother."
I have seen it over and over again. Jobs went anyway.

Jobs went away because of Deregulation starting in 1978 and us not wanting or accepting to work for what the LCC’s were paying. Jobs went away because we voted for more money over them. Jobs went away because of concessions and Bankruptcies.

As far as the “They can do that” line. The ONLY times I’ve ever heard that is in regards to what’s in our Contracts. If it’s not a violation of our CBA then yes, they can do that.

I’d rather hear they can do that with an explanation why then get some BS artist Union Rep trying to tell me what he thinks I want to hear.