American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[gulfcoast1]

you can ask. the aa way is our contractual c/c language compared to lus/iam lead language.

if a former aw/lus csm told my c/c to push a plane or tried to direct 'his' workforce, i'd pay money to hear his reaction.

And you think a CSM being able to direct the workforce without a CC is a good thing? And you think this because one CC out of hundreds or thousands gets 2 hours OT and sits inside all day or do I misunderstand something?

I will be disappointed if there is a signing bonus and seniority is not taken into account. The negotiators can surely do better especially if tos LAA employees will have 2 weeks tos wages taken away just because we are switching computers. Really?

I do not think it should be too hard to set something up where 0-10 years gets $2000, 10-20 years gets $4,000 and 20+ years gets $6,000.

 

[Buck]

NYer give me a break. The TWU/IAM Association should have been voted on “”””BEFORE”””” it filed with the NMB to service the combined membership.

Yes I still continue to recognize that a partnership between the two Unions (to me) was/is a MUCH better idea than the fighting that would have occurred without it.

BUT it is and will continue to be the root cause of many problems until someone officially recognizes that fact.

(Even you are now engaging in infighting here against IAM Negotiators. Nice role model you’re showing yourself to be)

I understand that the AFL-CIO was the Lead in this endeavor. Historically the larger of the two unions should have been the Representative to remain on the property.

 

[WeAAsles]

I understand that the AFL-CIO was the Lead in this endeavor. Historically the larger of the two unions should have been the Representative to remain on the property.

Historically? Or do you mean what the Governmental, Corporate written Laws normally say. The idea behind those Laws being just what the APA and APFA did which was to squash as best possible the minority’s Representation voice.

And that’s why again I say your newest Drive is doomed to failure. It’s designed only because you don’t like the idea that the minority has a fair and equal voice in the JCBA talks. You’re not even including IAM represented members “at this moment” in your Drive, WOW? Bullies!!!

I know that you want to dismiss them BUT the IAM has a 69 year History of representing the Mechanics at USAirways and they were not and shouldn’t have walked away as easy as some of you think they should have. And History should be given some respect.

But I wish the TWU and IAM had trusted that their mutual membership’s would have supported the idea of an Association before filing with the NMB and they didn’t. Fundamentally the Association though was a very good idea and certainly better than fighting each other rather than fighting the Company.

 

[WeAAsles]

I have never had a 4-man crew (excluding the Lead) in my entire time outside of maybe some unique situations such as a ground turn with a bunch of freight being dumped and/or a heavy load of bags and freight being loaded. 757 flights to HNL or maybe those 320 flights to ANC were about the only consistent flights where there would be 2 crews (4-6) people, plus the Lead.

Anyone catch Isom's comments a few months ago at an LAX town hall meeting when someone complained working short-staffed and Isom basically said that the Power Stows were designed to replace people, so what was he griping about? Given the push for efficiencies, I would be shocked if the LAA CC duties were untouched after a JCBA, as senior management claims AA has too many line employees for the fleet size and LAA CC's are hardly a model of efficiency.

I think you need to prepare yourself to be shocked then.

I’m not saying that we can’t do flights with a 3 man crew if that’s what the Company wants but they’re going to need to extend out that ground time then. Hell we can even go down to a 2 man crew if they want to extend out that ground time even more. But if they want to keep to their current turn schedules they’ll need to continue to staff appropriately.

Jester we do our work well but we DON’T rush and bust our asses and risk getting hurt to load and shuttle bags. If honestly that’s the way you’re used to doing things and enjoy it, more power to you.

 

[737823]

Historically? Or do you mean what the Governmental, Corporate written Laws normally say. The idea behind those Laws being just what the APA and APFA did which was to squash as best possible the minority’s Representation voice.

And that’s why again I say your newest Drive is doomed to failure. It’s designed only because you don’t like the idea that the minority has a fair and equal voice in the JCBA talks. You’re not even including IAM represented members “at this moment” in your Drive, WOW? Bullies!!!

I know that you want to dismiss them BUT the IAM has a 69 year History of representing the Mechanics at USAirways and they were not and shouldn’t have walked away as easy as some of you think they should have. And History should be given some respect.

But I wish the TWU and IAM had trusted that their mutual membership’s would have supported the idea of an Association before filing with the NMB and they didn’t. Fundamentally the Association though was a very good idea and certainly better than fighting each other rather than fighting the Company.

Weez the IAM represented TWA for a very long time and no one said the same. TWA is where many appointed leaders in transportation, across the Grand Lodge, and DL 142 have come from and have stayed and some are still around nearly two decades after that carrier went away. TWA was the IAM’s most prized carrier where at the end they represented every classification except pilots.

How long did the IAM represent NWA ESCs, COPFS at the time of the DL transaction? How long did they represent the mechanics NW mechanics before AMFA?

How long did the IAM represent UA AMTs before AMFA?

Point being why should the history at USAIR be given special consideration?

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

Weez the IAM represented TWA for a very long time and no one said the same. TWA is where many appointed leaders in transportation, across the Grand Lodge, and DL 142 have come from and have stayed and some are still around nearly two decades after that carrier went away. TWA was the IAM’s most prized carrier where at the end they represented every classification except pilots.

How long did the IAM represent NWA ESCs, COPFS at the time of the DL transaction? How long did they represent the mechanics NW mechanics before AMFA?

How long did the IAM represent UA AMTs before AMFA?

Point being why should the history at USAIR be given special consideration?

Josh

Since of course I’ve never believed the line that you’re a banker and am sure you’re actually a member of LUS Corporate and have so much disdain for the IAM, I kinda like that they’re still around actually. They’re obviously a thorn in your side.

I didn’t say the History should be given special consideration. I said History should be respected. Ridiculous to think that they or the TWU with its History was just going to give a hearty salute and walk away.

It’s obvious that you wish the IAM were pushing up daisies in the Airline Industry and maybe even further but it doesn’t look like they’re going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[MetalMover]

MetalMover this morning said “Right now this is a TWU movement”

So currently they don’t even want to involve current IAM Members. Their coworkers who they need to sign on as well.

Yes I’m sure this is going to be a rousing success.

Oh brother. Seriously.

WeAAz, I am not an organizer nor am I involved actively in this drive other than having signed a card. All I know is TWU mechanics are trying to get this done. I do not know for sure if the IAM side are interested or getting on the bandwagon. I should have not said that it is a TWU effort which implied it is a TWU ONLY effort. It might involve the IAM mechanics. I honestly don’t know.

 

[MetalMover]

Ok let me play a little Sherlock Holmes here and ask a few questions.

So what’s changed today that wasn’t still the case back in 2014 when it appears AMP was officially abandoned? Before it was fired up again the last post on its FB page was late 2014.

Why was the Website abandoned? The Domain name was up for sale?

And I was told that this LM2 is you guys? (Not sure) If it is why did AMP only file one in 2011 and not other years? One fiing, all zeros across the board?

BTW I do think you might have forced Gary to give you guys that little extra update with the Scope information. So that’s worth a pat on the back I guess.

View attachment 13156

What changed? The ASSociation sharing two work forces, That’s what changed. It’s a different animal this time thanks to the ASSociation! I honestly do not care about LM-2’s or any other technical data. I want to be rid of the ASSociation simply because I did not want it.
I think that is a damn good reason as far as I am concerned!

 

[Buck]

Historically? Or do you mean what the Governmental, Corporate written Laws normally say. The idea behind those Laws being just what the APA and APFA did which was to squash as best possible the minority’s Representation voice.

And that’s why again I say your newest Drive is doomed to failure. It’s designed only because you don’t like the idea that the minority has a fair and equal voice in the JCBA talks. You’re not even including IAM represented members “at this moment” in your Drive, WOW? Bullies!!!

I know that you want to dismiss them BUT the IAM has a 69 year History of representing the Mechanics at USAirways and they were not and shouldn’t have walked away as easy as some of you think they should have. And History should be given some respect.

But I wish the TWU and IAM had trusted that their mutual membership’s would have supported the idea of an Association before filing with the NMB and they didn’t. Fundamentally the Association though was a very good idea and certainly better than fighting each other rather than fighting the Company.

I MEAN WHAT I SAID.

Historically.

 

[MetalMover]

Weez I think you'll agree Metal is one if not the most level headed posters on here.Ill give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.not only that cause he is among the rank and file

Aw shucks! Thanks AL.

 

[MetalMover]

I wish this whole board had posters like Metal on here Al. MetalMover always strives to conduct himself with dignity and class.

I’m ABSOLUTELY not minimizing his opinions even if I just overwhelmingly disagree with them sometimes.

And if there ever were a successful Card Drive even though I would be disappointed that the TWU couldn’t satisfy them enough to remain I would sincerely congratulate him and wish him well. (I don’t feel that way about all of them no)

Thanks WeAAz!

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAz, I am not an organizer nor am I involved actively in this drive other than having signed a card. All I know is TWU mechanics are trying to get this done. I do not know for sure if the IAM side are interested or getting on the bandwagon. I should have not said that it is a TWU effort which implied it is a TWU ONLY effort. It might involve the IAM mechanics. I honestly don’t know.

Metal I’m reading that on the AMP FB page they kicked off one of the chief facilitators of the drive to dump the IAM out of US and replace them with the IBT because they didn’t like the questions he was asking?

I’m also hearing that they’re dumping others asking questions calling them TWU or IAM trolls?

“IF” this is true, that’s a great way to win over signed cards.

NOT!!!!

 

[WeAAsles]

What changed? The ASSociation sharing two work forces, That’s what changed. It’s a different animal this time thanks to the ASSociation! I honestly do not care about LM-2’s or any other technical data. I want to be rid of the ASSociation simply because I did not want it.
I think that is a damn good reason as far as I am concerned!

They have to legally file an LM2 if they want to be considered a Union for Representational purposes. I hope the AMP Founders know this?

BTW you don’t need to put ASS in front of the word every time. I know that you’re more mature than that.

 

[737823]

Since of course I’ve never believed the line that you’re a banker and am sure you’re actually a member of LUS Corporate and have so much disdain for the IAM, I kinda like that they’re still around actually. They’re obviously a thorn in your side.

I didn’t say the History should be given special consideration. I said History should be respected. Ridiculous to think that they or the TWU with its History was just going to give a hearty salute and walk away.

It’s obvious that you wish the IAM were pushing up daisies in the Airline Industry and maybe even further but it doesn’t look like they’re going anywhere anytime soon.

Not LUS management.

And even if the IAM *prime* were to go away do you really believe the appointed high paid officials would come back to the line? Based on IAM history they likely would still be i. Grand Lodge, 141 or 142 service. The union officials always take care of their own. And the very fact that the Association FAQs back in May 2013 addressed the question of what new positions would be created by the a$$ was answered as “existing structures will remain in place” just shows it’s all about the leadership remaining in their cushy roles.

The TWA people didn’t leave and come to AA (or hit the streets) by all indications USAIR would likely be no different.

Josh

 

[CremaDiLimone]

And you think a CSM being able to direct the workforce without a CC is a good thing? And you think this because one CC out of hundreds or thousands gets 2 hours OT and sits inside all day or do I misunderstand something?

from the company's perspective, i'd say, yes. definitely gives them more of a hands-on approach.

we understood that the company's view was ending the lus/iam insurance. it didn't mean we agreed nor want/wanted that to happen.

as far as the c/c; sure, there are probably 9 good c/c for every 1 corrupt to the core/a$$hole c/c in my station. i don't know what station you work at, my area has c/c with lots of time. the things that have occurred and things i've seen and experienced would make your blood boil.

what makes me incredulous to aa bending, if it does bend, on laa c/c language, is how this management team prefers inefficient/potentially damaging lav workers and inefficient c/cs to the obvious alternatives. keep lavs with fleet service and go with lus/iam lead language.

i was for the merger because horton and co. wanted to only grow eagle and keep aa in an incubator. it's obvious the former aw/us big-shooters are in over their heads.

my station has 3 man crews..my station is not phx where it's sunny all the time and never snows. the 'aw' way is the way ua ran it's HQ operation in the early 90's and they flopped with banks going against aa's 5-6 man crews. ua got so desperate that they sent (i witnessed this) execs. to aa's ccon to observe aa's operation.

they quickly understood that ramp connectors from another area seem to get lost or their trip sheet flew out of the tractor or someone stole their bag cart. keep the people and equipment on the gate and you gain time to run banks.

back to the future.

like wall street doesn't know. is this the new aw? it's definitely not delta...maybe we are at a stage where ua was in the early 90s'...started to tumble and ended up a solid 3rd for 25 years behind aa & dl. looks like kirby is making a difference at ua.