American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[NYer]

LUS Pilots lost their medical,
They negotiated a payoff, 16% Contribution into their 401K to make up for it.
It's really weird how the company was able to reach an agreement in 4 short months with essentially
3 different pilot groups and at least two of which hated each other with a passion.
Then, they also secured a kicker in pay because they fell too far behind the industry, while we wait, because , you know... it's complicated.
I've had it with the guys that say "it's really complicated". My Asss.

NY'er, maybe you can explain why the 7 weeks of VC for M&R (matching UA) was pulled off the table by Sito? Can't wait to hear that nuance.

The card drive is going to do one very important thing, get us a vote that we never got.
The M&R group will then have a mandate at the table the Association will NEVER have.
M&R is done with the ASSociation.
You will see in the coming weeks just how done with it the Mechanics are.

They reached an agreement with the APA and the APFA because they had a 150-day window to get an agreement or their CBA would be decided by an arbitrator. If we had that provision we would be talking about openers and not Section 6.

Wait for pay? I'll make believe you didn't really say that.

Wasn't in the room and don't know why or if there were 7 weeks proposed.

Good luck with your card drive and it's interesting to think that somehow all the outsourcing the Company wants will suddenly no become a negotiating issue once you have a different set of initials representing you.

 

[dfw gen]

They reached an agreement with the APA and the APFA because they had a 150-day window to get an agreement or their CBA would be decided by an arbitrator. If we had that provision we would be talking about openers and not Section 6.

Wait for pay? I'll make believe you didn't really say that.

Wasn't in the room and don't know why or if there were 7 weeks proposed.

Good luck with your card drive and it's interesting to think that somehow all the outsourcing the Company wants will suddenly no become a negotiating issue once you have a different set of initials representing you.

You are correct the initials will mean nothing. The difference is that i made my own bed to sleep in.
But thank you for your permission.

 

[NYer]

An error that i am no longer imterested in financing or backing. The leaders of the assiciation have not learned,nor are they interested in motivating the membership. There is no communication.i pay the twu to be aware of these issues, at the very least to be able to react and learn as a professional organization. They have not.

Unfortunately, too many people are voted into positions because they tell Members what they want to hear. They don't have to follow through because there is always someone to blame. Those candidates continue to get elected and you will continue to get tough talk with no follow through.

Last negotiations everything was bad because of Little, Videtich, Gless and company. The negotiations before that it was because of Steve Luis, Zimmerman and Fleet Service. This time it's because of the Association and in all instances, the fix is to get different initials. Godspeed.

 

[WeAAsles]

The root of the problem is the formation of the Association

Are they currently meeting (negotiating) or are those just planned for some time this week. Obviously it's not official because the Association never put out anything stating such.

It’s been sort of ambiguous exactly what’s going on this week? All we really got is what Mark Baskett put out and not much more. I have heard it’s going to be in DC though where the TWU, IAM and Jerry Glass have offices.

I think if we hear that the President’s and AGC’s are being called in then they might be performing their vote?

Wednesday is when AA announces Second Quarter earnings BTW.

 

[Traymark]

They reached an agreement with the APA and the APFA because they had a 150-day window to get an agreement or their CBA would be decided by an arbitrator. If we had that provision we would be talking about openers and not Section 6.
And there you are, in your "safe space" , the 150 day window safe space you always fall back on.
The fact is, they reached an agreement with 3 fractured groups in 4 months, period.
Go ahead and try tell me our contract is more complicated than 3 different pilot groups, it's laughable.

Wait for pay? I'll make believe you didn't really say that.
You really didn't just say we were all good after the raise in August 17 did you? That fell far short for any LAA M&R member when compared to the LUS Mechanics.

Wasn't in the room and don't know why or if there were 7 weeks proposed.
Yep, just deny it , because you can't nuance it.

Good luck with your card drive and it's interesting to think that somehow all the outsourcing the Company wants will suddenly no become a negotiating issue once you have a different set of initials representing you.

The outsourcing numbers might change noticeably for a certain Association group if they aren't tied to a certain Association group or they might not.
We will see once the election is called and the M&R group get a say in who represents them.
You might be disappointed to find out the outsourcing of future jobs might not be a top priority of the majority of the voting membership, but I have a hunch we will get an opportunity to find out.

 

[NYer]

The outsourcing numbers might change noticeably for a certain Association group if they aren't tied to a certain Association group or they might not.
We will see once the election is called and the M&R group get a say in who represents them.
You might be disappointed to find out the outsourcing of future jobs might not be a top priority of the majority of the voting membership, but I have a hunch we will get an opportunity to find out.

I won't be disappointed, you're all adults.

To be honest, between the two of us the one with the greater chance to be disappointed would be you.

 

[dfw gen]

I won't be disappointed, you're all adults.

To be honest, between the two of us the one with the greater chance to be disappointed would be you.

greater then the disappointment up to now?

 

[dfw gen]

i must admit it is a shame, if the association was built as a TRUE partnership, it could have accomplished good things. instead it APPEARS one side was gleefully pleased at the other side signing such a foolish agreement. so pleased it rested on its greatest accomplishment of the association, its creation

 

[AANOTOK]

i must admit it is a shame, if the association was built as a TRUE partnership, it could have accomplished good things. instead it APPEARS one side was gleefully pleased at the other side signing such a foolish agreement. so pleased it rested on its greatest accomplishment of the association, its creation

Yes, so much for the strength in numbers and the negotiation of the best of both contracts.
More division and more outsourcing...AA definitely took notice, just not the notice the Association was supposed to provide.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes, so much for the strength in numbers and the negotiation of the best of both contracts.
More division and more outsourcing...AA definitely took notice, just not the notice the Association was supposed to provide.

Um I haven’t seen a full TA yet to say that for the most part yes the Association did accomplish it’s goals of gaining the best of both contracts? (Fleet)

I know both CB and P. Rez have said many times that the language they negotiated for the most part were improvements against what they had to start with. I believe them and others who told me the same thing.

Before I pass judgement I think I’ll wait to read the entire book myself. Don’t you think that might be a good idea?

 

[Tim Nelson]

The root of the problem is the formation of the Association

Are they currently meeting (negotiating) or are those just planned for some time this week. Obviously it's not official because the Association never put out anything stating such.

They talk even when they arent in person. Uncle Jerry usually closes things in 1-2 sessions. He is the one who is authorized to give more than what Johnson is authorized. Again, third hand hearsay but imo it will be an offer in august or earlier that wont be TAd. There is a reason why the NC hasnt been brought in. The Association doesnt need the NC consent for an offer. No matter how many times CB and weez scream that the NC has to vote. It doesnt. Not on offers presented that are not TAd.
Consider all to be hearsay.
And I only get info on fleet. I dont believe MX will be voting for a while.

 

[Racer X]

Most don't even know that exists. I'd guess most of the current Presidents don't know that existed either.

Thanks

 

[Racer X]

Motivation for what? Lose their Medical, lose their pension.

The error that was made from the beginning is none of us being advised what the issues the other side had. We didn't get together and try to reach a consensus of what was important and what was going to be the priorities. We didn't start this process by understanding each other's issues and formulating a process moving forward.

It was basically, let's get the best of all the language and not much thought put into what would happen when that goal wasn't achievable. Going into the process without a roadmap is something that slowed the process and it was easily seen from a distance. Even without being directly involved I was able to share that this process was going to take much longer than what most believed.

Now that same frustration of this predictably long process is being misfired towards the wrong targets.

We still haven't learned and here we are trying to get into a card drive to solve an issue that will not be solved by different initials because the Company still wants what the Company wants. If you believe a card drive will help "motivate" people then go right ahead and we wish you luck, but that is a misplaced attempt to a solution because you're not really embracing what the true issues are.

Who are you referring to when you say “ we didn’t get together or get the priorities”?
Both sides had full Negotiating teams ( Mtc and fleet) for a week in July 2015 at Wipinsinger center. Then they met at least twice a month in aug sept oct and nov of 2015 before they gave the comprehensive to the company in dec of 2015.
They put out surveys to the membership to get their priorities and didn’t say they wanted the best of either language.
It was that the best of either CBA may be the starting point on any particular issue and the goal was to improve it Article by Article

 

[WeAAsles]

Who are you referring to when you say “ we didn’t get together or get the priorities”?
Both sides had full Negotiating teams ( Mtc and fleet) for a week in July 2015 at Wipinsinger center. Then they met at least twice a month in aug sept oct and nov of 2015 before they gave the comprehensive to the company in dec of 2015.
They put out surveys to the membership to get their priorities and didn’t say they wanted the best of either language.
It was that the best of either CBA may be the starting point on any particular issue and the goal was to improve it Article by Article

You’re about to argue against an agenda. An agenda can’t be argued or reasoned with because it has an ulterior motive that it feeds which is it’s real host.

But thank you for shedding the light of truth anyway.

 

[NYer]

Who are you referring to when you say “ we didn’t get together or get the priorities”?
Both sides had full Negotiating teams ( Mtc and fleet) for a week in July 2015 at Wipinsinger center. Then they met at least twice a month in aug sept oct and nov of 2015 before they gave the comprehensive to the company in dec of 2015.
They put out surveys to the membership to get their priorities and didn’t say they wanted the best of either language.
It was that the best of either CBA may be the starting point on any particular issue and the goal was to improve it Article by Article

By the time they met in July 2015, the Association had already been certified and the anticipation for negotiations to begin had started.

The two side were scheduled to meet in October of 2014 at the same Wipinsinger Center, but the TWU didn't show due to the BOS issue. They could have met at other times between then and the certification but they used the "we can't talk until we're certified" excuse to get together. All that was wasted time and could have damaged the relationship from the beginning.

It's funny how some on the TWU side call the IAM out for not participating in certain things but the relationship was strained from the beginning and we never really had a chance to come together and get to know each other's positions and cultures, that could have been helpful as we could have understood each other a little better.