American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[NYer]

that's correct, i remember that. but why divide the money by number of years worked?

why not the same retro check for all?

did ua & iam fear a 'no' vote if every single ua iam ramp agent would get $3.5k??

Couldn't tell you.

 

[cltrat]

well, the iam and ua got this one correct? i believe ua was given a signing bonus of $200 per year of service with the company.

I think that’s what it was, I know it’s practically criminal for a guy who hasn’t gotten his first safety vest dirty enough to turn in yet to get the same as a guy with 35 plus years does

 

[dfw gen]

I’m not understanding that reply. Or perhaps I didn’t phrase the question correctly. When or If, the NC gets to vote to put out a TA for ratification are the Twu members in MIA understanding that you will have one vote of 12 and the roll call vote is not in effect?

When jim little sold us out the IAM received EQUAL veto power to the twu. The roll call vote is a twu internal screw method vote.it has no bearing on assiciation business. The local presidents have no say on that arrangement. The only short term hope is if the iam and twu get concerned enough about the maintenance card drive to cut a deal. If not wait 17 months for section 6 negotiations to run its course.
Look for either scenario to include:
Iam looses medical fight, cateting but keeps the pension. Scope remains the same or improves a little.
The iam really has no one to blame but themselves. If from day one if they were true partners in the protests and general displeasure the company would not be able to drive that wedge so deep. The fight is unwinnable simply because the iam choose not to fight it from day one. Now you have a revolt in maintenance. We are done with the association , they are unresponsive, basically have 75% rowing and 25% anchor. Thats not a knock on the membership its a miscalculation on the iam leadership for not motivating the troops from day one. if Sorry guys just too late. at this point we have lost too much, and keeping losing more every day to suddenly decide to fight the good fight.

 

[NYer]

When jim little sold us out the IAM received EQUAL veto power to the twu. The roll call vote is a two internal screw method vote.it has no bearing on assiciation business. The local presidents have no say on that arrangement. The only short term hope is if the iam and twu get concerned enough about the maintenance card drive to cut a deal. If not wait 17 months for section 6 negotiations to run its course.
Look for either scenario to include:
Iam looses medical fight, cateting but keeps the pension. Scope remains the same or improves a little.
The iam really has no one to blame but themselves. If from day one if they were true partners in the protests and general displeasure the company would not be able to drive that wedge so deep. The fight is unwinnable simply because the iam choose not to fight it from day one. Now you have a revolt in maintenance. We are done with the association , they are unresponsive, basically have 75% rowing and 25% anchor. Thats not a knock on the membership its a miscalculation on the iam leadership for not motivating the troops from day one. if Sorry guys just too late. At this point, we have lost too much, and keeping losing more every day to suddenly decide to fight the good fight.

How do you motivate guys to just give up their medical? Because someone else says so?

Unrealistic. They will eventually lose the medical but it shouldn't because they didn't try to keep it or maximize a return for it. If the roles were reversed, we'd be doing the same thing. I highly doubt anyone in maintenance would be willing to sacrifice something so the IAM can keep their medical, so why would you expect the opposite?

The issue isn't so much the Association, but it's what the Company wants. If this was just TWU negotiations, do you believe giving up the medical would save the outsourcing they're suggesting? Hardly. There are many issues and the biggest mistake made was the assumption this would be an easy process.

That wasn't properly explained and the expectations that were set were also misleading and now leads to frustrations.

 

[WeAAsles]

I’m not understanding that reply. Or perhaps I didn’t phrase the question correctly. When or If, the NC gets to vote to put out a TA for ratification are the Twu members in MIA understanding that you will have one vote of 12 and the roll call vote is not in effect?

I don’t know if in my career the roll call vote was ever used to put out a TA against the wishes of other Presidents who didn’t let’s say it, represent a Hub? Better a simple vote to determine that course of action. Of course though for that you have to have a tiebreaker.

What I don’t like about the Association agreement is that there is no tiebreaker. To be honest I consider that insane. That means if one Union has an issue either financially or philosophically they can hold the other Union hostage to their particular demands.

I think after we reach JCBA’s this is a piece of the Association that should be rethought. Right now it could be one group being the Hostage takers, years from now it may be the other group?

 

[dfw gen]

How do you motivate guys to just give up their medical? Because someone else says so?

Unrealistic. They will eventually lose the medical but it shouldn't because they didn't try to keep it or maximize a return for it. If the roles were reversed, we'd be doing the same thing. I highly doubt anyone in maintenance would be willing to sacrifice something so the IAM can keep their medical, so why would you expect the opposite?

The issue isn't so much the Association, but it's what the Company wants. If this was just TWU negotiations, do you believe giving up the medical would save the outsourcing they're suggesting? Hardly. There are many issues and the biggest mistake made was the assumption this would be an easy process.

That wasn't properly explained and the expectations that were set were also misleading and now leads to frustrations.

Sorry chief, again if from the beginning the iam motivated the troops. Instead of sitting back we wouldnt be here. The delay is caused because the company realized the division caused by the association. An iam leadership blunder. They should have taken an interest in our fight a long time ago. They passed. I reserve that right now. Sorry i choose to pass. Its not about motivating them to loose medical, its about their LEADERSHIP lack of motivation.

 

[NYer]

Sorry chief, again if from the beginning the iam motivated the troops. Instead of sitting back we wouldnt be here. The delay is caused because the company realized the division caused by the association. An iam leadership blunder. They should have taken an interest in our fight a long time ago. They passed. I reserve that right now. Sorry i choose to pass. Its not about motivating them to loose medical, its about their LEADERSHIP lack of motivation.

Motivation for what? Lose their Medical, lose their pension.

The error that was made from the beginning is none of us being advised what the issues the other side had. We didn't get together and try to reach a consensus of what was important and what was going to be the priorities. We didn't start this process by understanding each other's issues and formulating a process moving forward.

It was basically, let's get the best of all the language and not much thought put into what would happen when that goal wasn't achievable. Going into the process without a roadmap is something that slowed the process and it was easily seen from a distance. Even without being directly involved I was able to share that this process was going to take much longer than what most believed.

Now that same frustration of this predictably long process is being misfired towards the wrong targets.

We still haven't learned and here we are trying to get into a card drive to solve an issue that will not be solved by different initials because the Company still wants what the Company wants. If you believe a card drive will help "motivate" people then go right ahead and we wish you luck, but that is a misplaced attempt to a solution because you're not really embracing what the true issues are.

 

[Traymark]

Motivation for what? Lose their Medical, lose their pension.

The error that was made from the beginning is none of us being advised what the issues the other side had. We didn't get together and try to reach a consensus of what was important and what was going to be the priorities. We didn't start this process by understanding each other's issues and formulating a process moving forward.

It was basically, let's get the best of all the language and not much thought put into what would happen when that goal wasn't achievable. Going into the process without a roadmap is something that slowed the process and it was easily seen from a distance. Even without being directly involved I was able to share that this process was going to take much longer than what most believed.

Now that same frustration of this predictably long process is being misfired towards the wrong targets.

We still haven't learned and here we are trying to get into a card drive to solve an issue that will not be solved by different initials because the Company still wants what the Company wants. If you believe a card drive will help "motivate" people then go right ahead and we wish you luck, but that is a misplaced attempt to a solution because you're not really embracing what the true issues are.

LUS Pilots lost their medical,
They negotiated a payoff, 16% Contribution into their 401K to make up for it.
It's really weird how the company was able to reach an agreement in 4 short months with essentially
3 different pilot groups and at least two of which hated each other with a passion.
Then, they also secured a kicker in pay because they fell too far behind the industry, while we wait, because , you know... it's complicated.
I've had it with the guys that say "it's really complicated". My Asss.

NY'er, maybe you can explain why the 7 weeks of VC for M&R (matching UA) was pulled off the table by Sito? Can't wait to hear that nuance.

The card drive is going to do one very important thing, get us a vote that we never got.
The M&R group will then have a mandate at the table the Association will NEVER have.
M&R is done with the ASSociation.
You will see in the coming weeks just how done with it the Mechanics are.

 

[dfw gen]

Motivation for what? Lose their Medical, lose their pension.

The error that was made from the beginning is none of us being advised what the issues the other side had. We didn't get together and try to reach a consensus of what was important and what was going to be the priorities. We didn't start this process by understanding each other's issues and formulating a process moving forward.

It was basically, let's get the best of all the language and not much thought put into what would happen when that goal wasn't achievable. Going into the process without a roadmap is something that slowed the process and it was easily seen from a distance. Even without being directly involved I was able to share that this process was going to take much longer than what most believed.

Now that same frustration of this predictably long process is being misfired towards the wrong targets.

We still haven't learned and here we are trying to get into a card drive to solve an issue that will not be solved by different initials because the Company still wants what the Company wants. If you believe a card drive will help "motivate" people then go right ahead and we wish you luck, but that is a misplaced attempt to a solution because you're not really embracing what the true issues are.

An error that i am no longer imterested in financing or backing. The leaders of the assiciation have not learned,nor are they interested in motivating the membership. There is no communication.i pay the twu to be aware of these issues, at the very least to be able to react and learn as a professional organization. They have not.

 

[dfw gen]

The membership has been taken for granted one too many times.

 

[WeAAsles]

Sorry chief, again if from the beginning the iam motivated the troops. Instead of sitting back we wouldnt be here. The delay is caused because the company realized the division caused by the association. An iam leadership blunder. They should have taken an interest in our fight a long time ago. They passed. I reserve that right now. Sorry i choose to pass. Its not about motivating them to loose medical, its about their LEADERSHIP lack of motivation.

Unfortunately I have to agree with this. One day I would like a legitimate answer to why there was no activity on the IAM side to either join the TWU protests or have any corresponding ones of there own in their cities?

Even if they were not informed formally of the first one occurring they could have insisted on being a part or hosting the next one and putting up the cash to have shirts and signs printed.

Even I can’t deny that this caused a serious rift and it’s not a secret the Company doesn’t know about.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Sorry chief, again if from the beginning the iam motivated the troops. Instead of sitting back we wouldnt be here. The delay is caused because the company realized the division caused by the association. An iam leadership blunder. They should have taken an interest in our fight a long time ago. They passed. I reserve that right now. Sorry i choose to pass. Its not about motivating them to loose medical, its about their LEADERSHIP lack of motivation.

im still against any deal that gives up current health but i understand that catering is now safe. Same deal as last august. a bump in wages higher than the number in the video. We will be top paid. wont have to worry about leapfrog.
consider this thirdhand hearsay. Coming down the pipe. 2 outs in bottom of 9th. Nuff said.

 

[AANOTOK]

The root of the problem is the formation of the Association

im still against any deal that gives up current health but i understand that catering is now safe. Same deal as last august. a bump in wages higher than the number in the video. We will be top paid. wont have to worry about leapfrog.
consider this thirdhand hearsay. Coming down the pipe. 2 outs in bottom of 9th. Nuff said.

Are they currently meeting (negotiating) or are those just planned for some time this week. Obviously it's not official because the Association never put out anything stating such.

 

[WeAAsles]

The membership has been taken for granted one too many times.

That’s the point not being understood by some people who are trying to paint a picture that you’re just “frustrated” with the process and not the cold hard (honest) fact that we were not given a choice if WE felt an Association was the best option for all.

On our side it was Jim Little who signed on the dotted line and then left us with any of the aftermath’s to his almost sole decision.

The frustrations come from a lack of any control and that being established unfortunately from day one.

 

[dfw gen]

The root of the problem is the formation of the Association

Are they currently meeting (negotiating) or are those just planned for some time this week. Obviously it's not official because the Association never put out anything stating such.

that is one of the primary issues that the association is failing. they dont care to tell you. your opinion does not matter.