American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Kev3188]

Companies always make it sound like they’re doing labor a favor. We (collectively) need to stop listening, and remind them that it’s us generating revenue.

 

[Kev3188]

Unfortunately Kev you’re goin to have to trust someone who you “chose” to trust on what’s going on in those Townhalls. Obviously we can’t share them if we value our jobs.

Parker was pounded in MIA and ISOM was pounded in PHL.

DFW is coming up to bat again.

Fair enough. I was hoping they’d been posted somewhere besides JetNet.

Glad to hear the bit I saw of PHL is part of a recurrent theme. Hopefully, that mindset spreads far and wide across your coworkers.

 

[NYer]

There will be a sweetening of the Comprehensive Proposal and wages will probably mirror the UA wages, plus 3% and raise go from 2% to 2.5%, as an example.

It is unfortunate most don't want to realize what the Company is doing and how they will make adjustments to what they've put out publicly so when it becomes an official counter-proposal it will silence some of the points being brought up by Members because they'll address some of it.

On the Fleet side, for the TWU members, the number of negatives is quickly diminishing. Once the wages are adjusted most everything else is a positive.

We can talk about the deicing piece which is important to many. However, even in the stations that have it, most FSC in those stations don't work it. Seems like wishful thinking for the majority in each of these stations would be willing to forgo the extra holidays, SK days, etc. so that a few can get more OT.

It would pass.

 

[WeAAsles]

Companies always make it sound like they’re doing labor a favor. We (collectively) need to stop listening, and remind them that it’s us generating revenue.

When a Company can give away to Wall Street 10 Billion Dollars coming off our backs since 2014, and grant their top executives many multiple Millions of Dollars in shares as compensation the idea of any type of work concessions for some added pennies is absolutely sickening.

I have no more mood left to give up any more of our work under the preface that someone else claims that it is not my “core” work.

What the hell is my “core” work and who the hell decided that?

 

[WeAAsles]

There will be a sweetening of the Comprehensive Proposal and wages will probably mirror the UA wages, plus 3% and raise go from 2% to 2.5%, as an example.

It is unfortunate most don't want to realize what the Company is doing and how they will make adjustments to what they've put out publicly so when it becomes an official counter-proposal it will silence some of the points being brought up by Members because they'll address some of it.

On the Fleet side, for the TWU members, the number of negatives is quickly diminishing. Once the wages are adjusted most everything else is a positive.

We can talk about the deicing piece which is important to many. However, even in the stations that have it, most FSC in those stations don't work it. Seems like wishful thinking for the majority in each of these stations would be willing to forgo the extra holidays, SK days, etc. so that a few can get more OT.

It would pass.

What you have failed to counter is what is being offered “currently” not what you are speculating “could” be offered by the Company to turn no votes to yes votes.

I can also play the let’s speculate game but at the moment that is not the meat I see sitting on my plate. That meat to me is rather skimpy on the bone.

 

[B737 driver]

Companies always make it sound like they’re doing labor a favor. We (collectively) need to stop listening, and remind them that it’s us generating revenue.

Kev if you guys are ramp you do generate revenue, especially cargo. Us in maintenance at SWA we are not an MRO provider like Delta, so we are cost.

 

[Kev3188]

Don’t sell yourself short!

Well maintained fleet—> Increased reliability—>Increased load factor (and/or ability to capture revenue premium)—> more $$$

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW to addressing the 3% above UAL line if it was looked at currently since UAL is still 8 months out from their next raise. 3% above UAL currently brings us to $31.39. Still only .58 cents above where we are currently. Not dramatically better than .22 cents.

UAL + 3% December would bring us to $32.17 which is still economically subpar by comparison to the inclusion by comparison of both Delta and United’s Profit Sharing formula.

I think AA Management needs to keep on tweaking?

 

[WeAAsles]

Kev if you guys are ramp you do generate revenue, especially cargo. Us in maintenance at SWA we are not an MRO provider like Delta, so we are cost.

Yea I have to agree with Kev. After seeing one of your engines blow up and suck a lady out to kingdom come I don’t think you should underestimate your value.

This could wind up becoming a tsunami of future Aircraft issues.

 

[Kev3188]

.

I have no more mood left to give up any more of our work under the preface that someone else claims that it is not my “core” work.

What the hell is my “core” work and who the hell decided that?

The C-suite did. It was then ratified by poorly written CBA's, non stop messaging that we're all "just lucky to have a job," and things like BK, 9/11, etc.

Time to change that narrative.

 

[WeAAsles]

The C-suite did. It was then ratified by poorly written CBA's, non stop messaging that we're all "just lucky to have a job," and things like BK, 9/11, etc.

Time to change that narrative.

Ok I’d like to ask you to please stop with the poorly written CBA’s line. Otherwise you can start a separate thread on how we can all storm the Bankruptcy chamber baracades and tie all those Lawyers and Judges to the stake for mass burnings. Or Tar and Feather the greedy lot who vote with their wallets and weren’t feeling the Bern in the last election cycle.

You and I are 100% fundamentally in opposition on our thinking of what it means to be in a Union shop. While I as an individual may not always agree with the collective I will respect the will of that collective and the ultimate decision of the majority through their VOTE.

You don’t and that’s fine. But I believe badgering and cajoling the majority will never get them to see your way of thinking. I think it just pisses them off and makes them even more determined to give you the middle finger.

Now of course I agree with you on the “others” who think they can just arbitrarily decide what my “core” work is and what it isn’t. I’m sure if that was put to a vote as a stand-alone we would agree to disagree.

 

[NYer]

BTW to addressing the 3% above UAL line if it was looked at currently since UAL is still 8 months out from their next raise. 3% above UAL currently brings us to $31.39. Still only .58 cents above where we are currently. Not dramatically better than .22 cents.

UAL + 3% December would bring us to $32.17 which is still economically subpar by comparison to the inclusion by comparison of both Delta and United’s Profit Sharing formula.

I think AA Management needs to keep on tweaking?

Here, argue with yourself.

 

[WeAAsles]

View attachment 12755

Here, argue with yourself.

You aren’t bringing out any type of sudden revelations of what my opinions were in the past. You can also find if you care to look many many multiple postings where I said I’d prefer to chuck the PS into the trash heap and get back to the Parker plus 7% narrative.

But I do know that probably because of economic nitwits (Flight Attendants) screaming they wanted it we’re all stuck with it now.

You did notice I wrote “In some areas I see it as a litmus” right? I don’t feel any lost work we perform could get me to vote yes for the offer even if it was maybe much higher than what’s currently or could be offered.

I really seriously did not factor in that these creeps would be looking to come after any more of our work than has already been deposited particularly at least since the BK.

I don’t know if I could vote yes leaving behind those Stations we lost with that gun to our heads? I really thought the creeps would at least offer us the ones where there are already CWA staffed?

So throwing just one small sliver of what I wrote back at me isn’t exactly being truthful to the FULL story there NYer.

NYer how would you have felt with an economic offer mirroring my post you shared BUT that offer does away with ALL Crew Chiefs and Management leads and directs the workforce? Do you think something like that would pass?

 

[WeAAsles]

You know it always does seem to be easy for people to vote out “others” cities and jobs when it’s not their cities and jobs that are the ones being voted into the trash.

To Hell with Deicing. To Hell with Catering. We don’t do them here in MIA.

To Hell with those closed cities. I didn’t live in any of them.

I LOVE all those greedy little pricks out there.

 

[Kev3188]

Ok I’d like to ask you to please stop with the poorly written CBA’s line. Otherwise you can start a separate thread on how we can all storm the Bankruptcy chamber baracades and tie all those Lawyers and Judges to the stake for mass burnings. Or Tar and Feather the greedy lot who vote with their wallets and weren’t feeling the Bern in the last election cycle.

You and I are 100% fundamentally in opposition on our thinking of what it means to be in a Union shop. While I as an individual may not always agree with the collective I will respect the will of that collective and the ultimate decision of the majority through their VOTE.

You don’t and that’s fine. But I believe badgering and cajoling the majority will never get them to see your way of thinking. I think it just pisses them off and makes them even more determined to give you the middle finger.

Now of course I agree with you on the “others” who think they can just arbitrarily decide what my “core” work is and what it isn’t. I’m sure if that was put to a vote as a stand-alone we would agree to disagree.

On one hand you say "you're in no mood to lose more core work," and on the other say you support the collective will of the people. You then get mad when I point out language in many CBA's has allowed that "core work" to disappear.

What do you think everyone is voting on?

You may be right about us differing on what being in a union shop means. From your posts, I see an endorsement of Business (or Service) model of unionism, while I prefer the Organizing model.

Maybe someday we'll find some common ground.