American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[NYer]

There you go again. Wrong.
SWA did not get a perm. injunction, nor did they get a temp. because AMFA followed the judges request after SWA filed and told the membership that they do not condone any kind of job actions. Whereas your dum a$$ asso. did the opposite and made threats to commit harm to AA on video and in writings.
YOU keep comparing the SWA and AA situations, when they really are different but about the same thing. Unlike your asso where a union leader threatened the VP and pres of AA with a job action on video. AA more than likely will win their suit against the asso. and the asso knows this big time as they are begging now for the co. to drop it. The questions at this point is, what will this pathetic asso. cave to in order to get it dropped? It will end up being the membership that endures all the negative of it not IAM or TWU.

Did I say there is an injunction or did I say they're pursuing an injunction?

("Like I pointed out with the SWA situation, it seems LAA will also seek a permanent Permanent Injunction in lieu of the actual payment of a contempt fine.")

AMFA said in Sept: "Now the company wants to use the courts to permanently enjoin AMFA and saddle its employees with a crippling $20 million dollar loss."

 

[Duke787]

Yep it could be all of this and yet the company doesn’t care what is hanging up this deal they are just moving on.
Who cares if we are the lowest paid and least overall compensated.
This is such BS all of it

the biggest BS of all is having two unions negotiating one contract.

 

[scorpion 2]

(Answering Scorpion #23086)

Well, in Fleet, I can tell you the 3% difference allowed for the following changes:

• There was an initial pay cut that was reversed. (2%, I believe)

• There were 1.5% raises that went to 2.1% raises.

• The PTers were brought back to paying the same amount as FTers on their medical.

• The 401K Match was made to be for all hours worked rather than just the scheduled hours.

• The 50% first day sick pay was returned to 100% pay

That's just off the top of my head.

Thanks for offering those points up.
Shaun Doyle (spelling could be wrong) would only offer up that fleet part timers got a better deal on insurance. Nice to know the other improvements. I’m assuming fleet lost 2/3rds of their profit sharing like mech n related did.
Overall there may have been a 3% reduction in ask but Mech n Related saw none of it we just lost our profit sharing. Sounds like Fleet got a 6% reduction in concessions with 3% being provided by AMTs.

I don’t hold anything against the rank n file fleet guys. If the twu hands them money off the mechanics back why wouldn’t they take it.

It is frustrating being around these dumbasses in Tulsa though that keep saying thanks twu,,,can I have another shank run up my a$$? PLEASE

 

[NYer]

Thanks for offering those points up.
Shaun Doyle (spelling could be wrong) would only offer up that fleet part timers got a better deal on insurance. Nice to know the other improvements. I’m assuming fleet lost 2/3rds of their profit sharing like mech n related did.
Overall there may have been a 3% reduction in ask but Mech n Related saw none of it we just lost our profit sharing. Sounds like Fleet got a 6% reduction in concessions with 3% being provided by AMTs.

I don’t hold anything against the rank n file fleet guys. If the twu hands them money off the mechanics back why wouldn’t they take it.

It is frustrating being around these dumbasses in Tulsa though that keep saying thanks twu,,,can I have another shank run up my a$$? PLEASE

The profit sharing was exchanged for a 4.3% raise once we exited BK.

At the time we had profit sharing for almost 10 years and there was only 1 payout on that time. Most Members wanted pay raises.

For Fleet, there would be the need to amass about $5B in annually profits to make the equivalent amount.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I actually agree 100% with NYer’s last comment. Both the Company and the Association already requested the services of the NMB early on in the process if needed.

More than likely if it does reach Section 6 her services would be expanded where she would actually begin to join talks and make suggestions to the sides that are most having difficulties.

http://www.nmb.gov/about-nmb/officials-staff/principal-officials/lind-puchala/

Glad to see that you have finally agreed with NYer bro.
Do you think Samuelson will go to the next town hall?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Company has a bigger hand and they're playing with house money.

Aint that the truth.
Why dont 80% of the membership know that?
Btw, our union guy says they are waiting for parker to get fired. Why? Just seems stupid even though the board just approved parker again. Nobody is talking about him being fired other than people who dont matter.

 

[Tim Nelson]

There's the quote I've been looking for.
The behind the scenes movement needs to happen. This done past pathetic by a long shot. Just read the update from dale below...


All the while the membership was lead to believe nego's were taking place for this past week. No info and no mention of anything (and still no mention from the nego cmte) but a note from Dale Loc 514 after the full week. Wow!!! Speaks volumes...

Our twu local in ord put out same update as dale.
This union is gone. Done.
Not sure when mx will unify for amp or amfa but twu has the numbers.

 

[1AA]

Our twu local in ord put out same update as dale.
This union is gone. Done.
Not sure when mx will unify for amp or amfa but twu has the numbers.

If we had real hard numbers it would have happened a long time ago.
Title 2 is not onboard.
USAIR guys seem to be satisfied with their current representation.
Another round of BOHICA is about to bestow upon us again.

 

[scorpion 2]

The profit sharing was exchanged for a 4.3% raise once we exited BK.

At the time we had profit sharing for almost 10 years and there was only 1 payout on that time. Most Members wanted pay raises.

For Fleet, there would be the need to amass about $5B in annually profits to make the equivalent amount.

The profit sharing took a two fold hit. We lost 2/3rds of it when the so called 3% reduction in concessions ask went in to place. “How does that equate into a reduction in concession when you lose something to get something”? The last 1/3rd went away when we “AMT’s got the temporary 4.3% pay raise. The 4.3% raise went away 1.5 years later for us.
You got a love the deception played on the membership on the profit sharing. The old plan that hadn’t paid in 10 years was paid on anything after 500 million. The new plan paid on first dollar and had a higher payout formula. It was going to have a nice payout after concessions went into affect. The twu used your spin to cover their deception to the membership and the sad part is the ignorant a$$es bought into it. Every one wanted a pay raise that’s a no brainer but why trade away something to get it? Anyone that buys into the twu as a reputable bargaining agent is a moron.

 

[NYer]

The profit sharing took a two fold hit. We lost 2/3rds of it when the so called 3% reduction in concessions ask went in to place. “How does that equate into a reduction in concession when you lose something to get something”? The last 1/3rd went away when we “AMT’s got the temporary 4.3% pay raise. The 4.3% raise went away 1.5 years later for us.
You got a love the deception played on the membership on the profit sharing. The old plan that hadn’t paid in 10 years was paid on anything after 500 million. The new plan paid on first dollar and had a higher payout formula. It was going to have a nice payout after concessions went into affect. The twu used your spin to cover their deception to the membership and the sad part is the ignorant a$$es bought into it. Every one wanted a pay raise that’s a no brainer but why trade away something to get it? Anyone that buys into the twu as a reputable bargaining agent is a moron.

Because we had the profit sharing for 10 years and 1 payout at the same time we didn't get a raise in those 10 years. Most Members wanted the pay raise.

If we could time travel, maybe they'd make a different decision. Then again, most thought the BK was fake and the airline was "hiding" the money.

 

[scorpion 2]

Because we had the profit sharing for 10 years and 1 payout at the same time we didn't get a raise in those 10 years. Most Members wanted the pay raise.

If we could time travel, maybe they'd make a different decision. Then again, most thought the BK was fake and the airline was "hiding" the money.

Nobody ask the members anything we had no say just like here and now. Thats what we were fed by the union. Those puny ass raises didn’t amount to squat considering the paycuts that came before them. The Airline didn’t hide as much as they wasted prior to filing so they could file. If nothing comes out of talks next week maybe folks will be ready to finally wake.

 

[conehead777]

I have to disagree. Just because it's your last contract is a BS reason to cave on full retro. We had several guys that are gone within and before the end of this contract we just voted in. By several I mean more than a half dozen. By our union communicating so well with them they were all comfortable enough to support them and all the mechanics that are still remaining beyond their time and the contract. In return the union promised to work diligently on getting even the ones that didn't wait full retro up to their retire dates, and they did. Even mechanics that have passed away within the time frame of this newly nego contract, their families were paid what that mechanic has worked in retro. And that is why we had such a large no vote (96%+). I understand you not wanting to wait, but, if this asso was worthy of getting full retro I would suggest retire anyway. But can't make that suggestion with this asso. in charge.
Still not sure if you guys are going 2 more years, however, if AA keeps playing the exact same playbook as SWA has, it will take 2-2.5 years.

AMFA cares about there members. Plus you members can vote out folks who are not doing the job that the membership wants done. But in our case the 0nly ones we get to vote 0n are our local officers. The international is decided by local 100 in New York the bus drivers union. But our main problem is the international. And they know they can’t be recalled . They know that and screw us like there is no tomorrow. We could show them the door if everyone who can sign AMFA cards but to many people like the way the twu bends them over I guess. I am fed up with this crap. The pilots flight attendant have there on union and they get snap back. We also need to get professional negotiating our contracts instead of the clowns Alex and sito

 

[Rogallo]

 

[V.O. Reason]

Nobody ask the members anything we had no say just like here and now. Thats what we were fed by the union. Those puny ass raises didn’t amount to squat considering the paycuts that came before them. The Airline didn’t hide as much as they wasted prior to filing so they could file. If nothing comes out of talks next week maybe folks will be ready to finally wake.

Talks what talks? There are no talks we are on ICE at least till next year. We are at a total stalemate as the Ass refuses to let us see the package and vote.
It’s disgusting and oh yeah Merry Christmas

 

[swamt]

Did I say there is an injunction or did I say they're pursuing an injunction?

("Like I pointed out with the SWA situation, it seems LAA will also seek a permanent Permanent Injunction in lieu of the actual payment of a contempt fine.")

AMFA said in Sept: "Now the company wants to use the courts to permanently enjoin AMFA and saddle its employees with a crippling $20 million dollar loss."

SWA never did ask nor "SEEK" a perm injunction. They did file for a temp. but the judge didn't have enough evidence to pursue a TRO. The Perm can't be requested unless the TRO has been broken or the Judge sees enough evidence to move forward towards the Perm and does so through the courts.
SWA is now only moving forward with a suit that will more than likely fail as they were not successful in obtaining neither a TRO or a PRO. I think SWA is trying to use a huge gaff by the co. to try and turn it around to make it look like it was a job action by the mechanics when it was their very own paperwork and packages that "instructed" mechanics to look for the very discrepancies that did cause for maint. control to ground the a/c not the mechanics.
Again, these are 2 very different situations. Now SWA will have to prove a job action took place, the burden is on them.

That started when the airline filed for the contempt order.

Like I pointed out with the SWA situation, it seems LAA will also seek a permanent Permanent Injunction in lieu of the actual payment of a contempt fine.

The Associatiion wants to exchange a JCBA for the legal issues to go away, including the probable fine and the permanent Permanent Injunction.

The Company probably wants to turn the fine into the permanent Permanent Injunction.

We're in a staring contest.

Bolded by me. As you wrote it it implies that SWA did seek a perm injunction. IE: "LAA will ALSO seek a perm. injunction.