American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Kev3188]

I think you and NYer might simply be talking past one another? Sometimes online discussion is hard because there's no tone/nuance/etc.

At any rate, he's been a lot more rational than some of the gasbags we've had to deal with on here (even if he's saying things we disagree with).

Just a thought. Peace.

 

[swamt]

I believe behind the scenes actions are happening to get rid of the Ass but it’s not easy and takes time but my understanding is it going on

Yes. Been told the same. But will take time, and why it won't happen before new contract as well...

 

[swamt]

my take is it that wages/benefits are done/satisfactory, but scope is still the hang-up.

fleet or maintenance? i'm guessing maintenance.

more twu AMTs on payroll since jan. 1 and more hiring to be done in tul. the assoc. is still saying 6 months from now, 18 months from now...has to be scope.

Maybe I read it wrong, but pls re-read it. I took it has they did come to industry leading with the wages, but lacked industry leading in all the other areas including the benefits areas. And as far as we have heard thus far it's not industry leading when they are offering to merely "match" SWA wage rates with the AMT's. IL would mean bettering our wage rates. However, maybe they have increased a bit higher than ours and we just don't know as of yet with the secrecy, not sure.
I think it's both Maint and fleet on the scope. there was one update that said all groups were still open with scope, and since then we have never heard any different. I also think they have increased (on the co. side) their ask for more fleet outsourcing since the original ask.
The 6-12-18 months he was referring to was the left open items still not agreed to yet, that it would be stupid to bring something out that could change in verbiage or language and could change 6-12-18 months down the road even after a vote.

 

[skinvalve]

When a JCBA for maintenance is finally released for a vote don't be surprised to find it is the currant IAM CBA with a few edits. This opinion is not based on any information, because there is non, just prior experience.

 

[V.O. Reason]

When a JCBA for maintenance is finally released for a vote don't be surprised to find it is the currant IAM CBA with a few edits. This opinion is not based on any information, because there is non, just prior experience.

Well don’t expect that this year, cause it ain’t going to happen

 

[title 2]

When a JCBA for maintenance is finally released for a vote don't be surprised to find it is the currant IAM CBA with a few edits. This opinion is not based on any information, because there is non, just prior experience.

if this happens i will vote NO

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Maybe I read it wrong, but pls re-read it. I took it has they did come to industry leading with the wages, but lacked industry leading in all the other areas including the benefits areas. And as far as we have heard thus far it's not industry leading when they are offering to merely "match" SWA wage rates with the AMT's. IL would mean bettering our wage rates. However, maybe they have increased a bit higher than ours and we just don't know as of yet with the secrecy, not sure.
I think it's both Maint and fleet on the scope. there was one update that said all groups were still open with scope, and since then we have never heard any different. I also think they have increased (on the co. side) their ask for more fleet outsourcing since the original ask.
The 6-12-18 months he was referring to was the left open items still not agreed to yet, that it would be stupid to bring something out that could change in verbiage or language and could change 6-12-18 months down the road even after a vote.

the "6-12-18 months down the road" position has been the assoc.'s stance on aa's scope and the potential/likelihood of aa not back-filling employees retiring/quitting/fired/dying.

some have taken it a step further, claiming (for fleet) that aa's proposed language only guarantees loading and off-loading airplanes.

i don't know...even if i read the language, what i could decipher?? if the twu's contractual scope language could be compared to what aa is proposing for fleet scope, maybe i could come to a conclusion. i know that NYer has stated that maybe this issue has been muddied a bit by the assoc., and there is no threat to fleet scope.

i don't know what the company's plans are. i do know if i was an executive with the union, concrete language guaranteeing union dues payers is paramount - otherwise the union will die a slow death over time of lack of funds.

since the memo made the point that pay in itself, isn't industry-leading when weighed alone, i'd believe that the memo is trying to tell us that scope is the problem.

as far as benefits, the company has publicly stated that fleet and maintenance can expect industry-comparable, not industry-leading. i read that on their jetnet proposals...while the company states that negotiating 'industry-leading' contracts for pilots and FAs will be their goal for 2019 and beyond.

all in all, i feel that some anger is misdirected. the company has earned billions since the merger and has proved their stinginess in this negotiating process. 1 additional week VC for fleet was a problem for aa...

...enough said. this is who the assoc. is negotiating with.

 

[1AA]

if this happens i will vote NO

If we get to vote.
Recent past history dictates otherwise. Yet in the past Title 2 guys were the biggest holdouts when it comes to signing cards. Now it's the USAIR guys first then Title 2. I wish guys stop complaining because they won't do a damn thing about making a change or move to rid this Association once and for all.

 

[1AA]

I wonder how hard the association is dug in on protecting jobs that aren't even available yet? I believe the term going around is protect the unborn.
Contracts are short term compared to ones employment time spent on the floor. So why not negotiate short term items and leave issues that are possibly two or three contacts away? In the meantime the current members are taking financial hits on all the potential earnings and retirement contributions that are floating out there waiting to be utilized.

 

[V.O. Reason]

The bottom line here is we are loosing out now on increased wages and benefits.
The union always complains that there will be loss of work or jobs yet I’ve been around 35 plus and I still see hiring going on I have people I work with who have been here for longer but every time we are told we have get stuff in the language.
So here we are now with no new agreement no better pay and no end in site.
So if the company is to blame then so be it but I think it’s both and again the company is the one benefiting right now as we just save them money by not paying us what we deserve and they don’t care how long it takes but there are a lot of us that don’t have many years left and we want to benefit from this merger but we are screwed

 

[Vortilon]

Word is that last Friday the Association was ready to bring it to a vote if the company dropped the BS lawsuit - the company refused, and the Association walked away.

 

[V.O. Reason]

Word is that last Friday the Association was ready to bring it to a vote if the company dropped the BS lawsuit - the company refused, and the Association walked away.

That’s because the company knows their going to win in court.
And again we get screwed from two sides
Total BS

 

[Vortilon]

That’s because the company knows their going to win in court.
And again we get screwed from two sides
Total BS

We have got nothing to lose, time to make everybody suffer.

 

[dfw gen]

the "6-12-18 months down the road" position has been the assoc.'s stance on aa's scope and the potential/likelihood of aa not back-filling employees retiring/quitting/fired/dying.

some have taken it a step further, claiming (for fleet) that aa's proposed language only guarantees loading and off-loading airplanes.

i don't know...even if i read the language, what i could decipher?? if the twu's contractual scope language could be compared to what aa is proposing for fleet scope, maybe i could come to a conclusion. i know that NYer has stated that maybe this issue has been muddied a bit by the assoc., and there is no threat to fleet scope.

i don't know what the company's plans are. i do know if i was an executive with the union, concrete language guaranteeing union dues payers is paramount - otherwise the union will die a slow death over time of lack of funds.

since the memo made the point that pay in itself, isn't industry-leading when weighed alone, i'd believe that the memo is trying to tell us that scope is the problem.

as far as benefits, the company has publicly stated that fleet and maintenance can expect industry-comparable, not industry-leading. i read that on their jetnet proposals...while the company states that negotiating 'industry-leading' contracts for pilots and FAs will be their goal for 2019 and beyond.

all in all, i feel that some anger is misdirected. the company has earned billions since the merger and has proved their stinginess in this negotiating process. 1 additional week VC for fleet was a problem for aa...

...enough said. this is who the assoc. is negotiating with.

absolutely the problem i have with the association is taking the membership for granted and not putting any information out. the one tool a union has an informed and motivated membership they refuse to cultivate and use.

someone posted that they were ready to bring something to a vote last week if the company dropped the law suit. if thats the case.

 

[AANOTOK]

Word is that last Friday the Association was ready to bring it to a vote if the company dropped the BS lawsuit - the company refused, and the Association walked away.

And of course the memo's put out since Friday, with the latest being from Local 502 and their President makes no mention of that.
The Association has totally destroyed honesty and true unionism. Now the TWU guys are playing their game. They have become too comfortable in their positions.

By the way, FA became a one term President of TWU 513 as he lost to Greg Cosey today.