American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[swamt]

the "6-12-18 months down the road" position has been the assoc.'s stance on aa's scope and the potential/likelihood of aa not back-filling employees retiring/quitting/fired/dying.

some have taken it a step further, claiming (for fleet) that aa's proposed language only guarantees loading and off-loading airplanes.

i don't know...even if i read the language, what i could decipher?? if the twu's contractual scope language could be compared to what aa is proposing for fleet scope, maybe i could come to a conclusion. i know that NYer has stated that maybe this issue has been muddied a bit by the assoc., and there is no threat to fleet scope.

i don't know what the company's plans are. i do know if i was an executive with the union, concrete language guaranteeing union dues payers is paramount - otherwise the union will die a slow death over time of lack of funds.

since the memo made the point that pay in itself, isn't industry-leading when weighed alone, i'd believe that the memo is trying to tell us that scope is the problem.

as far as benefits, the company has publicly stated that fleet and maintenance can expect industry-comparable, not industry-leading. i read that on their jetnet proposals...while the company states that negotiating 'industry-leading' contracts for pilots and FAs will be their goal for 2019 and beyond.

all in all, i feel that some anger is misdirected. the company has earned billions since the merger and has proved their stinginess in this negotiating process. 1 additional week VC for fleet was a problem for aa...

...enough said. this is who the assoc. is negotiating with.

Are you suggesting they backed off of the catering ask? And I forget the other in fleet. This would be great if they did. Most of the mechs that post have said they could deal with what the scope ask was originally, but some are worried it may have increased after the judges ruling on the restraining order and now a suit. Hopefully that will remain what the mechanics are willing to deal with.
Either way, none of us will know while they continue to keep everyone in the dark until T/A day, and that is sad.

 

[swamt]

If we get to vote.
Recent past history dictates otherwise. Yet in the past Title 2 guys were the biggest holdouts when it comes to signing cards. Now it's the USAIR guys first then Title 2. I wish guys stop complaining because they won't do a damn thing about making a change or move to rid this Association once and for all.

Could it be because the LUS guys don't want any change???

 

[swamt]

Word is that last Friday the Association was ready to bring it to a vote if the company dropped the BS lawsuit - the company refused, and the Association walked away.

I can easily see that as a very probable ask by the asso. and I would even say a good move. However, they just showed their hand. The co. didn't budge one iota, they know they have this asso by the balls now. The question from here on out is; will this asso keep refusing to bring anything out until co. agrees to drop the suit? If this is the case, this could go on for a very, very long time. I just don't see the co. dropping the suit. This could be the huge brick wall where nothing will ever make it out if both sides continue holding strong on this suit issue at hand. If all this happens would a DFR/FTR be in order from the membership? Then they would have 2 suits against them. Could this be the work "behind the scenes" that is going on???

 

[swamt]

And of course the memo's put out since Friday, with the latest being from Local 502 and their President makes no mention of that.
The Association has totally destroyed honesty and true unionism. Now the TWU guys are playing their game. They have become too comfortable in their positions.

By the way, FA became a one term President of TWU 513 as he lost to Greg Cosey today.

Where is Phoenix, so far he is striking out through his fly as well....

He was one saying from, FOTW, or maybe agreeing with, that they (nego cmte/asso.) were gonna have a vote on Tues. rather to bring it out for a vote. No such vote occured. Now we are hearing (more rumors) that asso. offered to co. to bring it to a vote IF they would drop the suit. And yet like you say no mention whatsoever within any updates from the asso., or the locals updates from 502 and others. Makes me think they knew the co. was going to deny the request and now the co. has all the leverage in that part.
He's been a bit quiet as of lately, wonder why???

 

[swamt]

Rumors, rumors and more hearsay.
If that were true and I'm not saying either way why are we being held hostage because the association wants the lawsuit dropped? The Association is financially and legally responsible for the lawsuit. They don't want to get stuck paying a fine so we the members get dragged on possibly through the holidays into 2020 under status quo. The association has that obligation since they represent us and collect revenue doing so.

Funny you say this. I posted sort of the same prior to reading your post. I too see this thing getting delayed for sure into next year and maybe beyond even. Hate to be so negative but, I could see this asso holding out to better benefit the LUS guys and what they have now, and two, the mere fact they are scared to death facing the final outcome of this suit that has video's, internet postings, and even verbal outburst and threats from the members of this asso. What is scaring them to death is, by law, they cannot pass any fines or cost over to the membership in this case, so they (the asso. TWU/IAM) will have to endure all fines and cost from this suit on their own. I am willing to bet that we will see another offer from the asso to bring something out again in the future, with even more concessions somewhere, so as to get the co. to agree to drop said suits. This asso. will do ANYTHING to get out of this suit. The saddest part is the membership will somehow suffer greatly all the while this asso. will take care of themselves over the membership all day long in order to save themselves. If they do this you guys better file suits against them in every which way. The hole is getting deeper and deeper for the asso. and soon they may see no way out. The questions are what all will they do and how far will this asso. take it in order to save themselves OVER the membership???

Key Rogallo...

 

[V.O. Reason]

This group as a whole should not be held hostage by a suit.
If that is true that the union leaders are holding up an agreement for that then that should be grounds to remove them from the representative group, as they are not allowing the dues paying members an opportunity to vote.
The court issue should not be a part it needs to be separated
The anger from all of this is just going to get worse.
I would say the holiday operations is going to suffer

 

[Vortilon]

This group as a whole should not be held hostage by a suit.
If that is true that the union leaders are holding up an agreement for that then that should be grounds to remove them from the representative group, as they are not allowing the dues paying members an opportunity to vote.
The court issue should not be a part it needs to be separated
The anger from all of this is just going to get worse.
I would say the holiday operations is going to suffer

Maybe both need a reminder. We cannot reward this unfair treatment of us by the company or the association. Holidays are approaching. We are stuck in the suck, and misery loves company - we need to share it.

 

[1AA]

This group as a whole should not be held hostage by a suit.
If that is true that the union leaders are holding up an agreement for that then that should be grounds to remove them from the representative group, as they are not allowing the dues paying members an opportunity to vote.
The court issue should not be a part it needs to be separated
The anger from all of this is just going to get worse.
I would say the holiday operations is going to suffer

We should hear from the big mouth Samuelson if things will be status quo through the holidays. I just don't know what garbage he'll be spewing out of his mouth and to whom.

 

[enough already]

From Danker of 514:


Since Friday my phone has been ringing constantly with rumors concerning negotiations. I have always said when I know something then the membership will know it as soon as possible.

I’m not aware of any of the details being talked about on social media. I was in DC last week while the company and the executive committee for the Ass. met.

This week I was told not to go to DC. Not exactly sure where all the rumors are coming from but I try to respond to every phone call. Email, text message and Facebook messenger message I receive asking me about different scenarios.

As of now I’m planning on returning to DC next week because I believe they will be negotiating on our contract.

December 3rd will be 4 years. Shouldn’t we at least be able to retain the scope language that we kept through bankruptcy?

They are making billions and they want more.

Dale

 

[AANOTOK]

So, will Danker be locked up for years? Did the NMB restrict these guys from relaying negotiations may continue? Well, the only TWU person in a position of leadership, IAM as well who has balls, just gave us a decent update. If nothing else, at least he informed the members negotiations will indeed continue next week. Something the Association failed to inform it's members about in it's latest update, and silence from the P.Rez/ Charlie Brown camp as well...all TWU lap dogs including Elvira refusing to relay this important update also as I guess Sito or Garcia has them all by the balls...money over membership...

 

[NYer]

So, will Danker be locked up for years? Did the NMB restrict these guys from relaying negotiations may continue? Well, the only TWU person in a position of leadership, IAM as well who has balls, just gave us a decent update. If nothing else, at least he informed the members negotiations will indeed continue next week. Something the Association failed to inform it's members about in it's latest update, and silence from the P.Rez/ Charlie Brown camp as well...all TWU lap dogs including Elvira refusing to relay this important update also as I guess Sito or Garcia has them all by the balls...money over membership...

Don't assume the Presidents get much more information than the Members.

 

[dfw gen]

So, will Danker be locked up for years? Did the NMB restrict these guys from relaying negotiations may continue? Well, the only TWU person in a position of leadership, IAM as well who has balls, just gave us a decent update. If nothing else, at least he informed the members negotiations will indeed continue next week. Something the Association failed to inform it's members about in it's latest update, and silence from the P.Rez/ Charlie Brown camp as well...all TWU lap dogs including Elvira refusing to relay this important update also as I guess Sito or Garcia has them all by the balls...money over membership...

its always about the money. theirs.

 

[dfw gen]

https://viewfromthewing.com/doug-pa...qo1KBm_Q2PB4uOAWZ3z3RjzpBm6Iz2Em61EL70sj1IYSQ

 

[NYer]

https://viewfromthewing.com/doug-pa...qo1KBm_Q2PB4uOAWZ3z3RjzpBm6Iz2Em61EL70sj1IYSQ

Nothing new, the airlines have been copy cat forever.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Funny you say this. I posted sort of the same prior to reading your post. I too see this thing getting delayed for sure into next year and maybe beyond even. Hate to be so negative but, I could see this asso holding out to better benefit the LUS guys and what they have now, and two, the mere fact they are scared to death facing the final outcome of this suit that has video's, internet postings, and even verbal outburst and threats from the members of this asso. What is scaring them to death is, by law, they cannot pass any fines or cost over to the membership in this case, so they (the asso. TWU/IAM) will have to endure all fines and cost from this suit on their own. I am willing to bet that we will see another offer from the asso to bring something out again in the future, with even more concessions somewhere, so as to get the co. to agree to drop said suits. This asso. will do ANYTHING to get out of this suit. The saddest part is the membership will somehow suffer greatly all the while this asso. will take care of themselves over the membership all day long in order to save themselves. If they do this you guys better file suits against them in every which way. The hole is getting deeper and deeper for the asso. and soon they may see no way out. The questions are what all will they do and how far will this asso. take it in order to save themselves OVER the membership???

Key Rogallo...

Thats BS.
The fines will be passed to the members. While, directly, they cant, indirectly they can and did before.
A criminal case in local 1776 which led to a $850,000 settlement.
I was a Director in District 141.
Sito worked in "loans" and if you look at the 1776 lm2s you will see the loans from 141. The iam claimed it was for organizing. Imo, against the law, but the dol didnt convict. The members dues went up like 15% in 1776.