American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[swamt]

Timmy may be at it again but it is more information than the Unions or Association has ever brought forth.

It’s not information, it’s bullcrap.

I would have to agree with Phoenix here. He may have information but is it good quality info compared to misinformation, lies and BS? But I still agree with your post as being more info. than either union or this asso. has EVER put out.

 

[ATD]

If I was in Tulsa I would be worried. GP the 3 time management wanna-be.
Will sell out base jobs for line jobs..
I have been told by an IAM in the room person....
fact......or rumor......
time will tell.

 

[Vortilon]

The Executive Committee today makes agreements and gets TA's without the President's and even the actual Negotiating Committee.

That didn't happen in the past, nothing came back unless the majority of the President's agreed.

I remember the famous Tulsa "Roll Call" votes trumping the line AMTs for the better part of thirty years of the process. The way our contracts pretty much favored overhaul AMTs were not hidden very well.

 

[Vortilon]

If I was in Tulsa I would be worried. GP the 3 time management wanna-be.
Will sell out base jobs for line jobs..
I have been told by an IAM in the room person....
fact......or rumor......
time will tell.

Why would they hire 400 AMTs in Tulsa then? I'll call BS on that one now.

Now, GSE, Facilities, and Stores has been in the company sights for reduction by attrition.

 

[swamt]

It must of misunderstood the answer. Don't know how you reached the conclusion, that I believe one group subsidizes the other. Doesn't work that way.

Our comparators are the other groups in the industry, Fleet v. Fleet.

Then why did AA mechs get a worse deal than UAL, Delta? AA gave more sick, o/t, and pay, all of it. Your suggestion of being compared with others in the industry does NOT add up with the rest of the industry. Even AA mechanics gave more in all areas between them and other groups within AA. When it comes to benefits it should be the same for all. Not more from one group and less for another that's subsidizing.

 

[swamt]

basically yes. the twu philosophy has always been "a loaf of bread cost the same for everyone brother"
when bobby gless made his famous quote "you need to lower your expectations" it was made with that mantra in mind. that was the driving force behind separate locals for maintenance and fleet service. to give the illusion of separation. rest assured ALL contracts ave been negotiated the same way the committee gets together talks for a few years about bulletin boards, the color of the bathrooms and then one day its just the "executive committee" in negotiations everyone is locked out of the room. and POOF we have an A.I.P. leading to a T.A. . rest assured there is a lot of finagling of the pie. the company has a figure in mind once thats determined its up to he union to see how it gets divided. its simplified but thats the way it works. so yes its all about the dues and the internationals survival.

And of coarse as we have seen thru the years the asso. (use to be the TWU) will divide it up in favor of the majority within the asso. so once again the mechs will get hosed at the end of the day.

 

[swamt]

There was no conspiracy, it was a fact that during our last AMFA drive at AA - the Teamsters played the role of spoiler by submitting forged authorization cards to the NMB knowing full well if the AMFA organizers couldn't get their legitimate cards submitted by days end - that a 2 year block on submitting cards would go into effect. What is real suspicious in this process, was that AA had to send somebody to DC that day - with signatures of AA AMTs on file - to confirm the legitimacy of the IBT submitted cards. I have never seen AA do anything like that so fast, on short notice. You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to see it was pre arranged.
You can go ahead and attempt to diminish these (so called) coincidences all you want, but shite like that doesn't just happen without planning in advance.
Add to that, why was there no legal consequences for the Teamsters for submitting forged cards, like fraud?
If the NMB were fair, the fraudulent IBT submission of forged cards should have been dismissed completely, and recognized for what it was - fraud!

Yes. And AMFA should have been allowed to bring forward their cards since the teamsters pulled forged cards and admitted as doing so by 3 big organizers. And yes, nothing ever happened to them or the teamsters. Very odd how NOTHING ever came from that.
Both you and dfw's post are true and accurate. And of course as you say it was all set up in advance as the co., the TWU, the IAM (asso.) and the teamsters all worked together as they were all scared to death that AMFA would get in at AA. The NMB not so much as dfw explained. They did follow the rules but there were some loop holes that they also followed (still legal) but unethical if ya ask me.

 

[swamt]

AMFA was created in 1964 by an American Airlines mechanic. To date, haven't been able to get a enough cards signed even when wine if the Local President's were pushing it.

If you can do it, go ahead. But taking about it for decades, then creating conspiracies to explain the failures is pretty tiresome.

They DID have enough cards. AMFA was bamboozled by the co. (AA), teamsters, TWU, IAM and asso. And in past drives the industrial unions had to spread lies, misinformation, BS and claim AMFA was broke, they HAD to do this in order to fight off all the cards coming in, again the TWU was scared to death of AMFA replacing them, and that is fact.

 

[swamt]

If I was in Tulsa I would be worried. GP the 3 time management wanna-be.
Will sell out base jobs for line jobs..
I have been told by an IAM in the room person....
fact......or rumor......
time will tell.

I would not put it passed Peterson to do that. Remember back when he was doing the videos and slamming his first questioning what the nego's were doing and why? Then all of a sudden the international wanted to shut him up, as he was getting to the root of it all, and then Bam! He was all of a sudden promoted to the international, all to shut him up. And now you guys have not heard one dam word from Peterson questioning anything this fiasco of an asso. does anymore, now have we??? I no longer trust anything Peterson says or does. At one time he was on my list of good until he was bought out by the asso international...

 

[1AA]

They DID have enough cards. AMFA was bamboozled by the co. (AA), teamsters, TWU, IAM and asso. And in past drives the industrial unions had to spread lies, misinformation, BS and claim AMFA was broke, they HAD to do this in order to fight off all the cards coming in, again the TWU was scared to death of AMFA replacing them, and that is fact.

Management, dead employees, retired employees and employees from TWA who retired before the merger where on the list. The TWU and AA management loaded up the list to make it impossible to weed it down. The final list still had some management and employees who were not represented by the TWU yet the company and union both insisted they be included. After it was over those non union employees continued on never being represented by the TWU and still are not to this day. That's the corruption of the unions, companies and the NMB.

 

[Phoenix757767]

Each union and company have the right to challenge who’s on the list.

 

[Kev3188]

So you're saying that either the TWU was complacent or complicit. Cool, cool.

 

[Phoenix757767]

It only happens when the list is submitted by the company then each union and the company can challenge eligibility. But alas you know this.

 

[Vortilon]

Each union and company have the right to challenge who’s on the list.

Problem is, the NMB allowed a lot of employees to be included who never should have been considered. Add to that AA did not want the AMFA either, so together with the TWU they were able to convince the rubes over at the NMB what should be included in the Mechanics & related voting block. They added 300 title 3 from MIA, about 150 title 3 from DFW, and justified it because they cleaned a cockpit window once that year or something equally technical on an aircraft, and poof - just like that - they must be considered in the "and related" classification. Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[Phoenix757767]

Problem is, the NMB allowed a lot of employees to be included who never should have been considered. Add to that AA did not want the AMFA either, so together with the TWU they were able to convince the rubes over at the NMB what should be included in the Mechanics & related voting block. They added 300 title 3 from MIA, about 150 title 3 from DFW, and justified it because they cleaned a cockpit window once that year or something equally technical on an aircraft, and poof - just like that - they must be considered in the "and related" classification. Nothing to see here, move along.

The names were never challenged as not enough cards were filed.