American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Rogallo]

Gentlemen. I've said this over and over. It's a copy cat business.

I like to think of it more as "Monkey see, Monkey do"

The saying refers to the learning of a process without an understanding of why it works

 

[Vortilon]

Ridiculous: LUS getting more money for having to accept AA medical while since the merger TWU has had to pay more money for medical. Think TWU members should be getting the extra money. Please explain.

Since roughly 2013, LAA TWU represented have paid more than $20K more in medical insurance premiums than their LUS / IAM counterparts. Yet some genius comes up with the idea that the LUS/IAM represented should be compensated an extra $3K for having to pay what everybody else does. This is beyond retarded, these guys have gone full potato.

 

[Vortilon]

Of course it makes sense to you, because it's more.

The extra $3,000 proposed to the IAM is because they're losing more and gaining less than TWU Members.

I guess it was okay with the LUS/IAM represented, when considering for the last 6 years - they pocketed over $20K more than their LAA/TWU brothers who have been paying the higher premiums since the start? Nevermind the 5 holidays, 5 days sick time accrual, no double time, the list goes on, lets just pretend it never happened right?

 

[1986Mekanic]

Since roughly 2013, LAA TWU represented have paid more than $20K more in medical insurance premiums than their LUS / IAM counterparts. Yet some genius comes up with the idea that the LUS/IAM represented should be compensated an extra $3K for having to pay what everybody else does. This is beyond retarded, these guys have gone full potato.

I guess it was okay with the LUS/IAM represented, when considering for the last 6 years - they pocketed over $20K more than their LAA/TWU brothers who have been paying the higher premiums since the start? Nevermind the 5 holidays, 5 days sick time accrual, no double time, the list goes on, lets just pretend it never happened right?

I'm pretty sure they going to tell us to forget the injustice and inequities that have occurred in the past. However, it cannot be just forgotten and will always be a sore spot for those of us that have been on the property during this time and will be until we leave.
It is, something that can never be "forgotten" or forgiven. We can look to the company and our representative for having done this to us and we can certainly blame ourselves for not dumping this arsehole ass.

 

[swamt]

It’s a rumor. Nothing was given up.

Sweet. Just glad to see more growth within the industry.

Says who?



Haven't you heard? Ass is giving away retro to pay AAs lawsuit..

The Asso. posted it in their Sep 4th update calling for nego's to restart, here's the first para:

WASHINGTON, Sept. 4, 2019 — The TWU-IAM Association today announced that mediation for negotiations in the American Airlines/TWU-IAM Association contract talks will restart on Monday, Sept. 16, at 1 p.m. ET and continue through Thursday, Sept. 19. The sessions will be held in Washington, D.C. at the National Mediation Board (NMB).

 

[swamt]

This is true.
What are the chances of daily updates this week?
Or are we just supposed to sit around speculate and make up rumors?

Now that's funny. Daily updates, C'mon man...

 

[swamt]

Anything less than DL+ 3% will be a disappointment

I agree, but still think the union should hold out or at least try to shoot for the original D+7% as first promised.

right. delta +3%, after dl's +4% raise. that's exactly what i said.

i agree with others, no retro = no vote, especially if the chintzy $3k bonus isn't increased.

the company is insane if it believes laa voters to be happy with $3k, while proposing lus get $6k AND get to keep their insurance an additional year.

no retro would also incentivize the company to stall during it's future negotiations. why negotiate in a timely manner??

if no deal gets done/a no vote on T/A...if this is the case, hopefully the BOD gets involved and makes changes at the top. let parker/isom go manage air wisconsin.

Correct. No retro would give the company the go ahead to stall out all future nego's. This is why Full Retro was one of our top listed in the requirement list of must haves.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Of course it makes sense to you, because it's more.

The extra $3,000 proposed to the IAM is because they're losing more and gaining less than TWU Members.

are there iam grand-poobas calming the iam army down, telling them that the iam got more than the twu because of 2014's stand-alone deal?

that deal doesn't count? pretend it never happened? holidays and holiday pay? cheaper, superior insurance?

so, history starts now...not in 2011 or 2013 or 2014?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Gentlemen. I've said this over and over. It's a copy cat business.

If Delta and United, who are supposedly blowing us out of the water, are using an outside vendor to deice then LAA will want to do the same.

It's interesting how the use of other airlines doing better than us is used so often. If other airlines are using vendors for these functions and we argue they're better than we're also saying the vendor is helping them in that cause.

that's right, they are blowing us out of the water. look at the margins, look at revenue vs. income. when delta rakes in more revenue off of less flights, what is that?

aa doubling down on RJ service...when almost 70% of RJs don't have premium seats...this, during economic boom times. i wasn't afraid to say it on jetnet or here, chasing the basic economy/premium economy is an america west concept, not laa.

also, united works it's RJs in it's hub. that is huge, thousands of more fleet jobs...let's take parker up on his offer.

it's all about premium passengers, not deicers.

from what i understand, ua and aa will work the city pad for deicing.

 

[V.O. Reason]

that's right, they are blowing us out of the water. look at the margins, look at revenue vs. income. when delta rakes in more revenue off of less flights, what is that?

aa doubling down on RJ service...when almost 70% of RJs don't have premium seats...this, during economic boom times. i wasn't afraid to say it on jetnet or here, chasing the basic economy/premium economy is an america west concept, not laa.

also, united works it's RJs in it's hub. that is huge, thousands of more fleet jobs...let's take parker up on his offer.

it's all about premium passengers, not deicers.

from what i understand, ua and aa will work the city pad for deicing.

You do understand that once we see an actual offer to vote on that’s as good as it gets.
Oh sure you can vote it down and demand something different but that always leads to a deal with less but addresses the demands of some
So be ready to just accept what’s offered and move on

 

[AANOTOK]

You do understand that once we see an actual offer to vote on that’s as good as it gets.
Oh sure you can vote it down and demand something different but that always leads to a deal with less but addresses the demands of some
So be ready to just accept what’s offered and move on

It won't be voted down (by Fleet).

 

[CremaDiLimone]

You do understand that once we see an actual offer to vote on that’s as good as it gets.
Oh sure you can vote it down and demand something different but that always leads to a deal with less but addresses the demands of some
So be ready to just accept what’s offered and move on

my take is that the company is extremely confident that a deal will get done this week.

why does the company need a deal? negative PR from AMT in miami, terrible summer operational statistics, terrible PR from cancelled and delayed flights. all these issues, impacting revenues and profits. impacting the reputations of parker/isom.

why i do believe a deal will get done this week? we desperately need heads for fleet, yet, the company is delaying hiring until the last week of sept. - and could further delay hiring them. why? these people have interviewed and passed drug tests. why the delay? to avoid new hires jumping 2 pay scales? to avoid paying more in bonuses? i would think this is a tip-off.

what would make the company extremely confident? the money, of course. retro and their stated bonus. no retro? the company would be foolish to be confident.

as far as future offers getting worse? maybe. we know that as employees, we can't approach the BOD. samuelsen is not an aa employee. he is the one who can publicly lobby for the BOD to send parker/isom packing.

a further increase in negative PR may be last straw..if samuelsen publicly concentrates on operational preformance and financial numbers. correlate the poor numbers with poor negotiating skills.

parker seems affable enough. i hope he turns things around and i believe he/we will. amazingly enough, i expect to be compensated with numbers that would have blown him away from his america west days, but he needs to realize he runs aa, not america west.

don't be chintzy/petty and pull retro. it is insulting AND sets a very bad precedent for future negotiations.

 

[dfw gen]

Now that's funny. Daily updates, C'mon man...

 

[NYer]

If what you say is true then why is American looking to contract out title II when both United and delta has facility maintenance and GSE. As a matter of fact delta contracted out facility maintenance about four years ago that lasted less than a year and they both offered everybody back their jobs with a bonus because the con

I guess it was okay with the LUS/IAM represented, when considering for the last 6 years - they pocketed over $20K more than their LAA/TWU brothers who have been paying the higher premiums since the start? Nevermind the 5 holidays, 5 days sick time accrual, no double time, the list goes on, lets just pretend it never happened right?

Your can look it that way, if you'd like. You can even vote no, if they end up with a higher bonus. By doing so, you'll just make the disparity last longer than it already has.

They'll keep their advantage and we'll forgo enhancements. Makes no sense to me, but you can choose to do that if you'd like.

From the IAM perspective, they're gaining less than we are but they're giving up more. If it takes an $3,000 for then to pass a TA that benefits me then that seems like an easy choice.

 

[NYer]

are there iam grand-poobas calming the iam army down, telling them that the iam got more than the twu because of 2014's stand-alone deal?

that deal doesn't count? pretend it never happened? holidays and holiday pay? cheaper, superior insurance?

so, history starts now...not in 2011 or 2013 or 2014?

Seems that standalone one carried the pay, the job security and elimination of the Ready Reserve language. Don't think anything else was enhanced from what they had, at least for Fleet.

A LUS IAM'er can chime in.