American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

comparing twu master seniority lists from jan til now, 9-3-19.

title 1 - 7,194...today 7,394
title 2 - 1,727...today 1,753

title 3 - 10,246...today 10,040. 206 less FSC.

Could some of that be attributed to seasonal hiring?

Maybe those were padded numbers in January due to holiday travel in December.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

could be, but i don't think so.

the company keeps bragging that we are flying more and more mainline aa jets; exp. - dfw900, yet down over 200 FSC spanning over a very heavy summer travel season? dfw/ord/mia are massively top-heavy twu over iam.

in recent weeks i've seen the company post over 100 FT and some 50+ PT jobs for my station.

more title 1 AMTs and more GSE/Fac Maintenance title 2 also. i didn't post stores numbers because i didn't write down their number in january.

does this mean the twu doesn't care about quality of work life for 30-40 yr. dues-payers and is satisfied with having more AMT/title 2 and envoy dues-payers?

i don't know either way, but i see the argument. FT is not incentivized by the company and i feel the union needs to be more vocal about FT shifts - quality/AM/week-ends.

too many PTers with 7 years have weekends on good AM shifts and work a few CS and they are better off than FTers with 30 years.

 

[V.O. Reason]

could be, but i don't think so.

the company keeps bragging that we are flying more and more mainline aa jets; exp. - dfw900, yet down over 200 FSC spanning over a very heavy summer travel season? dfw/ord/mia are massively top-heavy twu over iam.

in recent weeks i've seen the company post over 100 FT and some 50+ PT jobs for my station.

more title 1 AMTs and more GSE/Fac Maintenance title 2 also. i didn't post stores numbers because i didn't write down their number in january.

does this mean the twu doesn't care about quality of work life for 30-40 yr. dues-payers and is satisfied with having more AMT/title 2 and envoy dues-payers?

i don't know either way, but i see the argument. FT is not incentivized by the company and i feel the union needs to be more vocal about FT shifts - quality/AM/week-ends.

too many PTers with 7 years have weekends on good AM shifts and work a few CS and they are better off than FTers with 30 years.

But wait isn’t the ASS telling us they want to take work away, what is with the hiring is the union lying again or is just what normal business to continue to operate.
To many PT can be an issue but eventually those guys move up and oh yeah another lie by the union that we won’t get better seniority and better shifts because no one is being hired behind us.
The lies of this union just keep getting exposed

 

[ALUS78]

Thats cuz DL knows how to take care their employees. Modeled after WN yet non union. DL also will beat AA every shot they can.

I dont know check my math if we get DL+3% plus the differential we're not getting now add in the Holiday 1.5 we arent getting now it comes to about an 8k a year raise for a topped out fleet working nights..so. ...of course they have to agree with the DL+3 but i think they will

 

[lax]

i hear you, but i think the pressure will ratchet up..from the bottom. local twu presidents are feeling the wrath and realize they will lose elections unless a deal is struck. as far as the grand poohbahs of the iam, i agree - steady as she goes.

i know a former ramp c/c who went into management. he was telling me that aw leads were earning $10/hr, prior to us air merger. these guys will earn $36.00/hr, with differential, on DOS.

they can't say they never won a lottery. the merger has been a praise-Jesus miracle for former aw and non-hub lus.

Not just aw but all of lus. And don't forget about job security at those wages. But it's still not enough for the IGM greedy IAM

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

i don't know either way, but i see the argument. FT is not incentivized by the company and i feel the union needs to be more vocal about FT shifts - quality/AM/week-ends.

too many PTers with 7 years have weekends on good AM shifts and work a few CS and they are better off than FTers with 30 years.

CremaDiLimone I know you don't want to hear this but I am going to hit you with some blunt honesty.

If I were given the option to work part time I would take it and stay part time for the rest of my time at American Airlines. I would of course like to be classified as full time (I'll touch on that later) but I would CS off half my hours and work the equivalent of part time.

The reason I would not go full time is because what I did at American Airlines (TUL or TULE) was not marketable outside of the Airline business. Whereas my current vocation I have several options in different industries and in different cities. Another factor is I don't have seniority limiting my options as far as choosing where to live.

The benefits of working part time are of course the fact I still have access to a full benefits package and flight benefits and I have sort of an insurance policy against layoff from my other job (that was the bit I said I would touch on later). If my primary job were to lay me off, fire me, or go out of business I could simply work my full time hours at American Airlines until I found another job in my primary vocation. That's an insurance policy that pays you. Also in my case even working topped out as a FSC would be a loss for me per hour, so that is a consideration.

Doesn't a part time job that offers you a living wage with full benefits and the ability to convert to full time at your leisure sound like a good deal?

My advice, leverage that option and try to find you something else that makes you more money but stay on for the health/retirement/flight benefits.

Again I know you didn't want to hear that but I want you to see the reality of the other side of the coin. If those shops at TULE allowed people to CS I would be back at TULE in another classification right now giving away half my hours.

Like I said....... it's a good deal.

That being said what is the UNION supposed to do? Work to deny benefits to part time employees? Get rid of the CS policy? The company wants part time so of course they engineer it so that there is an incentive.

 

[Matt1200]

I am not an American Inspector. I started with AWA in 1990. After the USAIRWAYS merger I remained a Inspector. Now with the merger with American, I feel if you don’t have a A &P you need to get one issued to you. I went to Spartan in 1978. I did many tours of your Tulsa hangars. I am not saying I am any better than a non-licensed technician. I feel it would help raise the bar for the common cause.UNITY!!!!!

 

[robbedagain]

I dont know check my math if we get DL+3% plus the differential we're not getting now add in the Holiday 1.5 we arent getting now it comes to about an 8k a year raise for a topped out fleet working nights..so. ...of course they have to agree with the DL+3 but i think they will

DL plus 3% would be what, roughly 97 cents to put say at $33.25 give or take. But the bigger question should be what wld uncle Parker n gangsters do? Offer DL plus 3 or wld they go slightly higher? Signing bonus? Buyout? So many questions. Yet very lit to literally nonexistent info or answers

 

[bigjets]

comparing twu master seniority lists from jan til now, 9-3-19.

title 1 - 7,194...today 7,394
title 2 - 1,727...today 1,753

title 3 - 10,246...today 10,040. 206 less FSC.

It’s obvious that AA is trying to destroy the aircraft maintenance career

Are the FSCs doing less or are the workers time being utilized better

 

[Tim Nelson]

CremaDiLimone I know you don't want to hear this but I am going to hit you with some blunt honesty.

If I were given the option to work part time I would take it and stay part time for the rest of my time at American Airlines. I would of course like to be classified as full time (I'll touch on that later) but I would CS off half my hours and work the equivalent of part time.

The reason I would not go full time is because what I did at American Airlines (TUL or TULE) was not marketable outside of the Airline business. Whereas my current vocation I have several options in different industries and in different cities. Another factor is I don't have seniority limiting my options as far as choosing where to live.

The benefits of working part time are of course the fact I still have access to a full benefits package and flight benefits and I have sort of an insurance policy against layoff from my other job (that was the bit I said I would touch on later). If my primary job were to lay me off, fire me, or go out of business I could simply work my full time hours at American Airlines until I found another job in my primary vocation. That's an insurance policy that pays you. Also in my case even working topped out as a FSC would be a loss for me per hour, so that is a consideration.

Doesn't a part time job that offers you a living wage with full benefits and the ability to convert to full time at your leisure sound like a good deal?

My advice, leverage that option and try to find you something else that makes you more money but stay on for the health/retirement/flight benefits.

Again I know you didn't want to hear that but I want you to see the reality of the other side of the coin. If those shops at TULE allowed people to CS I would be back at TULE in another classification right now giving away half my hours.

Like I said....... it's a good deal.

That being said what is the UNION supposed to do? Work to deny benefits to part time employees? Get rid of the CS policy? The company wants part time so of course they engineer it so that there is an incentive.

that was funny

 

[Tim Nelson]

DL plus 3% would be what, roughly 97 cents to put say at $33.25 give or take. But the bigger question should be what wld uncle Parker n gangsters do? Offer DL plus 3 or wld they go slightly higher? Signing bonus? Buyout? So many questions. Yet very lit to literally nonexistent info or answers

Not really too many questions. Its been Delta +3% and still is after we passed on the Delta + 7% (now imputing 4% for profit zharing which is short changing us cuz our ps sucks).
So you and others who support and encourage the association are really costing us, from my perspective. We got crap but we could have this:
1. $33.26 + 2% raises (still 66 cent raises at this monster wage.
2. shift differ .51
3. True double time (anything over 12 hours on a work day)
4. $75,000 life insurance for our beneficiary (now only $35,000)
5. overtime bypass payment
6. paid suspensions
7. Paid badging and positive space
8. 12 fully paid sick days a year
9. 10 holidays
10. Finally holiday premium pay 2.5x
11. 6 weeks vacation
12 9% retirement contribution (double what we get now)
13. enhanced scope
14. station protections
15 status protections.
16. $6,000 bonus
17. $65,000 buyout

The only thing you lose is lus health care but thats going to be terminated anyways in 2 years.

Im not sure what you expect? You and others are arguing against a contract that is the most expensive contract ever offered.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

But wait isn’t the ASS telling us they want to take work away, what is with the hiring

maybe the prez successfully threw some fear at the company and now we have more AMTs and title 2??

 

[CremaDiLimone]

That being said what is the UNION supposed to do? Work to deny benefits to part time employees? Get rid of the CS policy? The company wants part time so of course they engineer it so that there is an incentive.

to incentivize FT, the union (at local levels) should work the bids where the majority of PT shifts are PM, on the ramp/gates and with weekdays off.

from the company's perspective...where the company is screaming bloody murder about medical costs, why have so many 4 hr PT shifts that are basically worthless, but still having to pay full health benefits??

all in all, compare to delta. delta doesn't treat all it's employees as equally as aa, yet overall financially, delta treats it's employees better?? where's the disconnect?

delta incentivizes working as delta, not ready reserve.

the CS policy is also ridiculous. maybe with a contract, the CS system won't be gamed as often. of course, management and C/Cs in manning positions can be and have been corrupted by the scammer FSCs. contract/no contract, privilege or contractual right, the CS nonsense will continue.

the delta ready reserve worker can't wait to be regular delta and collect $14k profit sharing checks. his incentive is attendence and working hard. the aa 4 hr PTer can't wait to CS off their shift to a FT scammer, scamming 12-16 hours a day. that is the operational difference between delta and aa.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

It’s obvious that AA is trying to destroy the aircraft maintenance career

Are the FSCs doing less or are the workers time being utilized better

most are working more, a few are working even less...just being at work 14 hours a day sitting in chair, is their only hurdle.

to the AMTs that taxi planes- notice all the wing-walkers with hunchbacks and severe limps. average age of FSC is in 50s?? age is probably coming down a bit with retirements and the unfortunate clock to box workers.

 

[1986Mekanic]

most are working more, a few are working even less...just being at work 14 hours a day sitting in chair, is their only hurdle.

to the AMTs that taxi planes- notice all the wing-walkers with hunchbacks and severe limps. average age of FSC is in 50s?? age is probably coming down a bit with retirements and the unfortunate clock to box workers.

Dude, theres a bunch of us out there limping around and hunched over...