American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[P. REZ]

I know exactly what it means.

"When and where" doesn't take jobs away, that's the work of the language in Scope.

Of the work being done, that is not expressly protected in Article 6, it can continue to be done by Association Members or it could be outsourced at the Company's discretion.

Positions not protected by Scope may be assigned to Association Members "when and where directed" to do those jobs.

Positions protected by Scope will be done exclusively by Association Members and not affected by "when and where directed" language.

Then why didn't you cut to the chase from the start? You should have said reps were using confusing verbiage regarding "when and where directed" work. That would have saved a lot of back and forth.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

What's a few hundred million dollars?

The problem is that under the RLA We don't have the mechanism to force the issue to get those kinds of things above the already proposed 401K boost, pay raises, differentials, extra VC, more sicks days, more holidays with higher premiums, even the small CC premium.

A bonus of $300 per year is a large, large number that I'm sure would be prioritized in other areas, if available.

if so, then where is the mechanism to force 3% more than united? the same mechanism that forces a formerly bk company and now a financially thriving company to 'unfreeze' a frozen pension?

my point is that aa hasn't budged on fleet wages. they have modified their jetnet proposal(s), as recently as the wn AMT contract to match those wages and increase the 'bonus' by $3k, exclusively for lus assoc. members.

i would tend to agree with you and want to agree that we will get more than 3% above dl on DOS. why not put that in the recently modified jetnet proposal(s) to the assoc.??

as far as the bonus, the fact that the company's profit sharing formula for 30,000 employees won't be touched, is a concession. the bonus can also be classified as a one-time expense and won't come to $10k per employee. lots of new hires will balance the sum. i'm looking at $200 million.

$200 million from $7 billion = 1-2 quarters to replenish the $7 billion threshold.

you're letting the company off easy. if you say we don't have time for this, where do you find time for another 7 months, waiting for united to get their next raise, that so far, has no bearing on aa's wage strategy. they still cling to delta +3%.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Mail isn't protected. They don't need when and where language.

So, AGAIN, show us how when and where eliminates those protected positions in Article 6.

are lavs protected under the current twu contract and will lavs become vulnerable to outsourcing if we use iam language?

 

[NYer]

if so, then where is the mechanism to force 3% more than united? the same mechanism that forces a formerly bk company and now a financially thriving company to 'unfreeze' a frozen pension?

my point is that aa hasn't budged on fleet wages. they have modified their jetnet proposal(s), as recently as the wn AMT contract to match those wages and increase the 'bonus' by $3k, exclusively for lus assoc. members.

i would tend to agree with you and want to agree that we will get more than 3% above dl on DOS. why not put that in the recently modified jetnet proposal(s) to the assoc.??

as far as the bonus, the fact that the company's profit sharing formula for 30,000 employees won't be touched, is a concession. the bonus can also be classified as a one-time expense and won't come to $10k per employee. lots of new hires will balance the sum. i'm looking at $200 million.

$200 million from $7 billion = 1-2 quarters to replenish the $7 billion threshold.

you're letting the company off easy. if you say we don't have time for this, where do you find time for another 7 months, waiting for united to get their next raise, that so far, has no bearing on aa's wage strategy. they still cling to delta +3%.

They've been saying it for years. They're willing to take us 3% above whoever is on top at the time. They've done it to ask the other groups and recently confirmed it by upping the mechanics because of the recent SWA CBA.

Not having time isn't because of the letting them off easy, it's because the injunction will create a time crunch and there are higher priorities to address.

 

[NYer]

are lavs protected under the current twu contract and will lavs become vulnerable to outsourcing if we use iam language?

"At ATL, AUS, BOS, DCA, DFW, JFK, LAS, LAX, LGA, MCO, MIA, ORD, SAT, SFO, SJU, STL, and TPA, normal and customary lavatory and water systems work as referenced in Classifications and Qualifications Article XX, Paragraph C.5 will be performed on mainline aircraft by employees covered by this Agreement."

Basically, the TWU cities keep the lav work they currently have under the TWU Scope.

 

[AANOTOK]

So let me ask this...has the Association been using the "When and where" threat in conjuction with AA wants everything but the loading and unloading of aircraft to try and convince the members? I see them both used together by both negotiators and Association supporters...

 

[Tim Nelson]

1rst...You sir are just another poster without a name speculating on a "forum". I would not base any prediction about what the future holds on your postings.

2nd. What is happening now has become the new norm. Case closed..

I think his opinion of the outcome is most likely, based on facts. The only facts we can go on are the court documents. Not good for the Association.

 

[Tim Nelson]

So let me ask this...has the Association been using the "When and where" threat in conjuction with AA wants everything but the loading and unloading of aircraft to try and convince the members? I see them both used together by both negotiators and Association supporters...

The Association was proven a liar about this after the company proposal was published. All current work under scope stays minus catering and dFW deicing. This means job expansion and hiring since the company is expanding.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Speak to a PHX BSO Agent, they are being outsourced because of "when and where directed" language! That job was always in house since AWA started in 1983. Stations have outsourced UM work upstairs because of "when and where directed" language, this with a company who has made how many Billions since the merger? How many Billions in cash? How many Billions in stock buyback?

Oh, there's a reason we are stuck on scope!

As you know, the company scope proposal offers the same work we do today, minus catering and DFW deicing. That said, in addition, I like the when and where directed because it allows us to do other work. What's the fuss? The TWU doesn't have that convenience and therefore doesn't get a lot of work like we do.

At any rate, negotiations are dead until things get more professional. I think there is room for movement on both parties. The company has to put a cap on health care, give us a station or two (IAH, RSW?), and bump up the wage a bit more.

 

[Tim Nelson]

but why are yo

I'm not understanding your issue with the language. It means they can give you work not spelled out in the contract or take away work you are currently doing if not protected. That work in PHX would be lavs, water and mail. They will methodically outsource one piece at a time if the current scope being proposed is voted in. Can I 100% say so? No, but look upstairs. A conversation with the Cargo Director in PHX a few months ago was very telling as well. Oh, and I've never seen any work given to us in PHX. As a matter of fact, they outsourced catering security while we were in negotiations.

but why are you fussing over work that you don't have under scope right now? The idea that you want 'ownership' of all current 'when and where' directed is just a strawman. Not happening! What is offered is the exact same work you have under scope today and that you previously agreed to. What's the change with ya now?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Stop going upstairs. We have our own language for reference. Show us the language that opens the door for the eliminate jobs with the when and where directed. Just point the way...

They are claiming 'ownership' of all 'when and where directed' work. Both Prez and Baskett previously agreed that our current scope is great, but now they are building strawmen by laying claim to all of the other work. Furhter, they offered less pay and less benefits for additional stations to bait the company into giving them 2,500 more members. Not good!

 

[robbedagain]

"At ATL, AUS, BOS, DCA, DFW, JFK, LAS, LAX, LGA, MCO, MIA, ORD, SAT, SFO, SJU, STL, and TPA, normal and customary lavatory and water systems work as referenced in Classifications and Qualifications Article XX, Paragraph C.5 will be performed on mainline aircraft by employees covered by this Agreement."

Basically, the TWU cities keep the lav work they currently have under the TWU Scope.

DCA. We do not do our lavs. Its outsourced. Sometimes we do water but that too is most part gone

 

[737823]

Then why didn't you cut to the chase from the start? You should have said reps were using confusing verbiage regarding "when and where directed" work. That would have saved a lot of back and forth.

Unlike you NYer was hired directly not acquired into AA by riding the coattails of mergers. P. REZ has really hit the lotto going from a sub $10/hr job at HP to USAIR to now AA and benefiting from a cushy six figure union gig.

When you applied to HP did you ever imagine you would get so lucky?

Josh

 

[Rogallo]

Unlike you NYer was hired directly not acquired into AA by riding the coattails of mergers. P. REZ has really hit the lotto going from a sub $10/hr job at HP to USAIR to now AA and benefiting from a cushy six figure union gig.

When you applied to HP did you ever imagine you would get so lucky?

Josh

Touché

 

[robbedagain]

Worked his way up that ladder