American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[AANOTOK]

Given the bad blood btwn comp n union spilling into the court n now the FAA involved how long before maintenance gets an offer n same w fleet? I feel for us fleet we wont see an offer for quite sometime or after pilots fas n cwa. Just my gut feeling n i hope im wrong. I still say we should of at very had chance to vote on proposal even though i think it wld been shot down but to vote at least wld of probably quelled few on here

Yep Rob, it would have "quelled" a few on here, probably more than a few, maybe the majority. That is all most were asking, just the right as dues paying members to either tell the company overwhelming to shove it and get back to the table, or as the Ass feared, pass it and live with the consequences. Seems pretty simple to me,but Mr. Blood bath had to have his and his only seal of approval. One individual speaking for 30,000. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point.

 

[AANOTOK]

Robbed, question...with what has transpired, if the Ass is forced to put it out for a vote (because of monetary concerns, i.e fine) do you think it now passes or do you think that drives a wedge even deeper between the members and the company?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Define scope.

What are your issues specifically with scope?

at a personal level, my issue is that the company is getting something for nothing, when their checkbook balance is at unheard of, unprecedented levels. remember, the company has some $7 billion just sitting around.

c/c language, lavs, deicing in some stations...throw in lus losing catering/not gaining freight...numbers of stations staffed by aa, flight thresholds.

to me, there's a reason the company has made the language vague..and i don't believe it's to behoove us.

all that, for .70 cents an hour more than united on DOS and the company has earned $16+ billion the past 5 years? sorry, no.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I feel for us fleet we wont see an offer for quite sometime or after pilots fas n cwa.

the company is doubling down with envoy. i believe there is a TA with envoy ticket agents.

i believe they rejected the first offer ($3/hr-$4/hr raises on DOS for topped-out agents...but only raises of $2+/hr over next 6 years).

without seeing the numbers, i'm guessing the company sweetened the pot enough for the cwa to agree to a TA.

the company found some money for them, where is the money for us?

 

[dfw gen]

Have to love the association response, the company should have disciplined the employee and settled it in arbitration. After reading that i hope they fine the **** out of both of them. Be funny if they had to cut jim littles pension to make ends meet. If i had a part in dissolving the association, that would be great. A feather id wear proudly.

 

[Talos]

I would say the Association supporters (yes, that includes those from both the IAM and TWU side) are absent because they are preparing their crow the best way they can tolerate it. Some like it BBQ style, some fried, and I'm assuming some stuffed in NY Style pizza. But we all know that's not the case. They have no argument, they know they were wrong, and now crickets. These pages were covered with criticism of those of us who expressed our concern about the ASS. Now silence from each and every one of them. I won't mention a single one of them, not even the reps, but WE ALL know who are pretending to be deaf, dumb and mute at this point...

Anyone from LAA that supported the Association does not have good business sense. The two deals with the separate unions were too different and made getting a deal very difficult. The LUS people had a good deal and no surprise they were quiet and in the background during the process. Can't blame them. I look at the LAA people who supported the Association especially after all this time and wonder what was their logic.

 

[robbedagain]

Annotok. If we took the vote n lets say it failed then the company and or union could find out why it failed n go from there

Crema.. Money there Envoy. Then obviously its there for us.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

at a personal level, my issue is that the company is getting something for nothing, when their checkbook balance is at unheard of, unprecedented levels. remember, the company has some $7 billion just sitting around.

c/c language, lavs, deicing in some stations...throw in lus losing catering/not gaining freight...numbers of stations staffed by aa, flight thresholds.

to me, there's a reason the company has made the language vague..and i don't believe it's to behoove us.

all that, for .70 cents an hour more than united on DOS and the company has earned $16+ billion the past 5 years? sorry, no.

Thank you for your response.

 

[Kev3188]

...numbers of stations staffed by aa, flight thresholds...

+1

Both of these are/were ridiculous even in the worst of times. We (NW) has exponentially better even coming out of BK, and even now at DL we have almost triple the number of LAA stations.

 

[1AA]

Anyone from LAA that supported the Association does not have good business sense. The two deals with the separate unions were too different and made getting a deal very difficult. The LUS people had a good deal and no surprise they were quiet and in the background during the process. Can't blame them. I look at the LAA people who supported the Association especially after all this time and wonder what was their logic.

Ask the Weez. Maybe he can give you the answers. Most of us would love to dump this lovefest association made in Hell.

 

[NYer]

in regards to this forum, it would be unreasonable for the union to make angry posters forget their passwords.

the company doesn't need posts from this forum to make a strong case. the company made a strong case with the MELs. the court loves precedents. this is how many from same period 2015-2016, same period 2016-2017...etc.

now, it's up to the union to point to failed company policies resulting in the spike.

NYer, it looks like the AMTs got a very nice late piece of candy (wages) and all LUS assoc. members got another piece of candy (keep cheaper & superior insurance for 1 more year and $3k more 'bonus' than laa assoc. members).

where is the late piece of candy for laa fleet? what makes the company think i'd vote yes for diminished scope in exchange for a meager wage increase and keeping the same pathetic profit sharing formula?

all this after earning $16+ billion the past 5 years? unacceptable.

After this debacle, it is not unreasonable that of a JCBA isn't ratified the next course of action would be to take things off the table rather than to put more, not including money.

Saying no, isn't a strategy.

 

[NYer]

Robbed, question...with what has transpired, if the Ass is forced to put it out for a vote (because of monetary concerns, i.e fine) do you think it now passes or do you think that drives a wedge even deeper between the members and the company?

Fleet passes.
Maintenance doesn't.

 

[swamt]

which part is in denial the silent partner the noisy partner or the whole thing? and again why are we in it?

Industrial Unions 101.

where is your buddy weez? Well at least you have learned well and now see the value of NYer.

Tim, Please stop asking about him. He's gone, leave it alone or he might come back. Let it go dude...

The company didnt object to terminating and suing the suspects it may have targeted. The union argument to the judge was to whack employees, instead of the union.
Nobody should be involved in a slowdown because they could be subject to termination and fined. Ive never seen a union toss people under a bus quite like it is in these court docs.
This is getting ugly.

Yes it is. And, after this toss under the bus, if they stay with this pathetic asso. it is just so far beyond me.
BTW; these court docs do not look good for the asso. Probably pretty much expected from this unprofessional asso.

 

[swamt]

Anyone from LAA that supported the Association does not have good business sense. The two deals with the separate unions were too different and made getting a deal very difficult. The LUS people had a good deal and no surprise they were quiet and in the background during the process. Can't blame them. I look at the LAA people who supported the Association especially after all this time and wonder what was their logic.

Said that from day one announcement sir.

Fleet passes.
Maintenance doesn't.

I hope so NYer...

 

[scorpion 2]

Someone is going to get blamed.

To note, one of the Association arguments in their submissions for Monday's hearing is they can't be held responsible if some mechanics acted on their own.

I’m not directing this toward NYer but his post made a good Segway for my hypothetical question.
Since the twu and iam’s Certificate has expired per the nmb ruling where will the buck actually stop? The asso doesn’t have any money or so they say so wouldn’t it be like getting a fine against a turnip? The asso is a shell corporation setup by the other 2 so can a judgment be rendered against them?