American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[bigjets]

Categorically disagree with pretty much every point here Weez, where ever you got it. DWH works what is on our ramp with our folks. When DFW management pawns off a RON/OTS is one thing. DFW assigning AMTs to DWH to do "line" work is another thing all together. It would impact everything at DWH. OT, shifts/days off, job assignments and aircraft movement. After all to hear some of 591s E-board tell it, a big part of this scope fight. Is to preserve those very things. I guess its good enough for the "line" but not the base guys huh?

It does seem like DFW would have enough hangar/ramp space. But then again the OH guys at DWH should not be involved with moving aircraft to/from the terminal which is line mechanic work area. I’m guessing DWH might not be concerned with taking away OT from the DFW move crew.

But of course DWH hangar and ramp space is not the property of the OH mechs at DWH. The space is rented by AA from DFW and the OH mechs at DWH are paid to work on aircraft assigned to by AA management. If that space was the unions/locals space to decide what and who worked it, then the AFW guys should have been given the option to work at DWH rather then bounced around the system.

In typical Texas fashion AFW DWH DFW mechanics from these stations have been screwing each other over for shifts, days off and OT. So naturally they are not to blame, it’s GPs fault. But he kept getting voted into office, but now he’s in the international, so prediction is, he will be the newest boogieman to Texas mechanics to blame someone other then their own greed.

Hog are you a union rep by any chance?

 

[Deleted member 14439]

It does seem like DFW would have enough hangar/ramp space. But then again the OH guys at DWH should not be involved with moving aircraft to/from the terminal which is line mechanic work area. I’m guessing DWH might not be concerned with taking away OT from the DFW move crew.

But of course DWH hangar and ramp space is not the property of the OH mechs at DWH. The space is rented by AA from DFW and the OH mechs at DWH are paid to work on aircraft assigned to by AA management. If that space was the unions/locals space to decide what and who worked it, then the AFW guys should have been given the option to work at DWH rather then bounced around the system.

In typical Texas fashion AFW DWH DFW mechanics from these stations have been screwing each other over for shifts, days off and OT. So naturally they are not to blame, it’s GPs fault. But he kept getting voted into office, but now he’s in the international, so prediction is, he will be the newest boogieman to Texas mechanics to blame someone other then their own greed.

Hog are you a union rep by any chance?

" DWH hangar and ramp space is not the property of the OH mechs at DWH" Really? Now that is about the most absurd thing I have read. No, I am most certainly not a union rep. Never have been, never will be.

 

[WeAAsles]

It does seem like DFW would have enough hangar/ramp space. But then again the OH guys at DWH should not be involved with moving aircraft to/from the terminal which is line mechanic work area. I’m guessing DWH might not be concerned with taking away OT from the DFW move crew.

But of course DWH hangar and ramp space is not the property of the OH mechs at DWH. The space is rented by AA from DFW and the OH mechs at DWH are paid to work on aircraft assigned to by AA management. If that space was the unions/locals space to decide what and who worked it, then the AFW guys should have been given the option to work at DWH rather then bounced around the system.

In typical Texas fashion AFW DWH DFW mechanics from these stations have been screwing each other over for shifts, days off and OT. So naturally they are not to blame, it’s GPs fault. But he kept getting voted into office, but now he’s in the international, so prediction is, he will be the newest boogieman to Texas mechanics to blame someone other then their own greed.

Hog are you a union rep by any chance?

Gary Peterson is going to be the new Boogeyman? Is that before or after Sito retires?

Just a joke here to try and lighten the mood.

 

[Vortilon]

Dude you’re making up figures from years ago where nothing had ever even been agreed on. Your wage figures alone don’t make sense. If you’re comparing to current AMFA they only just got those raises. You want to put them back to 6 years ago? Seriously?

In 2016 you went 1% above the top of the industry at that time. You can’t put $4.00 per hour and all those things back to 2013. HELL NO.

And they aren’t bringing back Penalty Hours unfortunately. And quite a few of those other thing the Company still hasn’t agreed on.

Look, obviously I'm splitting the difference by using the $4.00ph figure, cause the last offer was closer to $9.00ph for me. The sick time and vacation, I could have said 12 days per year on that - I went conservative with 10 days. Same for the vacation, we had TA'd 7 weeks at one point to match UAL AMTs, now that's back to only six for some reason. Seriously, the only thing I expect any debate on would be the 6 years, everything else is pretty accurate. Even if you argued for 3 years as a measuring stick, it is still a huge loss for us.

I didn't see or hear any mention of retro pay from the company or Association, and I don't get the impression it's high on their priority list. So, with each passing day we are losing.

 

[WeAAsles]

Look, obviously I'm splitting the difference by using the $4.00ph figure, cause the last offer was closer to $9.00ph for me. The sick time and vacation, I could have said 12 days per year on that - I went conservative with 10 days. Same for the vacation, we had TA'd 7 weeks at one point to match UAL AMTs, now that's back to only six for some reason. Seriously, the only thing I expect any debate on would be the 6 years, everything else is pretty accurate. Even if you argued for 3 years as a measuring stick, it is still a huge loss for us.

I didn't see or hear any mention of retro pay from the company or Association, and I don't get the impression it's high on their priority list. So, with each passing day we are losing.

Did you watch the videos that the Association put out? Tom Regan spoke on the issue of retro and said that it’s the Associations position going back to the amendable date for FULL Retro (September 2018) He also sounded very sure that the Bonus was not going to be only $3000. If you watch his mannerisms he almost seemed insulted by the very idea. My “guess” is at the end of all this you guys will get a larger signing bonus than we do which is something I’m fine with.

I have a feeling that no one ever said anything but we were always meant to live out the life of those Bankruptcy agreements? Except for extra wages the Pilots and the Flight Attendants only got industry average for their deals with the Arbitration backstop. BTW the FA’s are now all back to a 5.5% 401K and they have to work 40 Hours per Month to keep Medical. If you watch their Website they have a lot of issues they want taken care of in their upcoming talks too.

Anyway you really should watch those videos and I think you’ll see that in some areas the Association isn’t being unreasonable in a lot of what they’re asking for. It’s the Company that doesn’t want to let us audit their Medical expenditures for one thing. Leaving that open and without a cap they can charge us whatever the hell they want and the 21% BS don’t mean a hill of beans.

 

[WeAAsles]

Look, obviously I'm splitting the difference by using the $4.00ph figure, cause the last offer was closer to $9.00ph for me. The sick time and vacation, I could have said 12 days per year on that - I went conservative with 10 days. Same for the vacation, we had TA'd 7 weeks at one point to match UAL AMTs, now that's back to only six for some reason. Seriously, the only thing I expect any debate on would be the 6 years, everything else is pretty accurate. Even if you argued for 3 years as a measuring stick, it is still a huge loss for us.

I didn't see or hear any mention of retro pay from the company or Association, and I don't get the impression it's high on their priority list. So, with each passing day we are losing.

BTW Vort I wanted to add this reminder that Title 2 is a part of your Class and Craft as recognized by the NMB and the Association has both a Legal and Moral responsibility to Negotiate for those Groups. The Company pretty much wants to bulldoze those Groups out of existence over time. That’s not something the Association and even more particularly the TWU can accept.

I wish you guys would start to realize that it’s the Company who is holding the hard line on many things and is the only one that can soften their stance particularly on items that will cost them money.

It’s their Bank accounts.

 

[WeAAsles]

AMFA supporters here a question.

AMFA at SWA held on after their Contracts became amendable for almost 7 years while their Company tried to take away more work from them. That work is headcount work for future dues payers not even on the property yet.

The TWU and IAM at AA want the same thing to at least hold on to the work or headcount they have today.

So is there a double standard going on here? What’s the difference?

 

[swamt]

AMFA supporters here a question.

AMFA at SWA held on after their Contracts became amendable for almost 7 years while their Company tried to take away more work from them. That work is headcount work for future dues payers not even on the property yet.

The TWU and IAM at AA want the same thing to at least hold on to the work or headcount they have today.

So is there a double standard going on here? What’s the difference?

WRONG AGAIN GENIUS!!!
The work SWA wanted was for work we do right freaking now. No future dues payers would have been affected only current workers, jobs and positions. Quit speaking about issues you have no clue about.
The difference will be, what will the TWU/IAM agree to let go once again as concessions to the work groups before anything comes out for a vote???
AMFA held strong on all new outsourcing at SWA and maintained all current scope language. I really hope and pray your mechanics group can do the same for their scope, but we will all see on T/A day now won't we???

 

[WeAAsles]

 

[Vortilon]

BTW Vort I wanted to add this reminder that Title 2 is a part of your Class and Craft as recognized by the NMB and the Association has both a Legal and Moral responsibility to Negotiate for those Groups. The Company pretty much wants to bulldoze those Groups out of existence over time. That’s not something the Association and even more particularly the TWU can accept.

I wish you guys would start to realize that it’s the Company who is holding the hard line on many things and is the only one that can soften their stance particularly on items that will cost them money.

It’s their Bank accounts.

They also said the same thing about building cleaners. At NWA the company proposed pretty much the same thing in their now infamous contract offer to the AMFA membership. They were a little more ruthless back then - going after the "and relateds" back then. At least with us it would be through attrition only. No union is going to be able to dictate to the company future headcount on an issue like this. It's pissing up a rope.
We have sacrificed enough for the company, and the union.
So it comes down to, would we rather get a deal done now that takes care of the "current dues payers" at least once in our careers, or worry about future headcount, and if a nite shift guy makes day shift a little sooner? I talk to nite shift guys every morning - they want a deal ASAP.

BTW, Gary has told us what the company positions are, we expect that from them.

 

[ALUS78]

View attachment 14474

Tim if the company brings the video of the LGA townhall will they have a problem convincing judge.Did our leaders get played?? Anything monetary will come out of whos treasury??

 

[WeAAsles]

They also said the same thing about building cleaners. At NWA the company proposed pretty much the same thing in their now infamous contract offer to the AMFA membership. They were a little more ruthless back then - going after the "and relateds" back then. At least with us it would be through attrition only. No union is going to be able to dictate to the company future headcount on an issue like this. It's pissing up a rope.
We have sacrificed enough for the company, and the union.
So it comes down to, would we rather get a deal done now that takes care of the "current dues payers" at least once in our careers, or worry about future headcount, and if a nite shift guy makes day shift a little sooner? I talk to nite shift guys every morning - they want a deal ASAP.

BTW, Gary has told us what the company positions are, we expect that from them.

But if all the language during bad times and good kept cutting from the bottom up in only AMT headcount would you be ok with that? Say that you were that bottom full timer in the system and 30 years on you were still the bottom full timer?

Why does it seem to me as if you’re more than ok to cut the throat of Groups that you don’t even belong to?

I couldn’t do that Bro. Seriously.

 

[texasreb]

It does seem like DFW would have enough hangar/ramp space. But then again the OH guys at DWH should not be involved with moving aircraft to/from the terminal which is line mechanic work area. I’m guessing DWH might not be concerned with taking away OT from the DFW move crew.

But of course DWH hangar and ramp space is not the property of the OH mechs at DWH. The space is rented by AA from DFW and the OH mechs at DWH are paid to work on aircraft assigned to by AA management. If that space was the unions/locals space to decide what and who worked it, then the AFW guys should have been given the option to work at DWH rather then bounced around the system.

In typical Texas fashion AFW DWH DFW mechanics from these stations have been screwing each other over for shifts, days off and OT. So naturally they are not to blame, it’s GPs fault. But he kept getting voted into office, but now he’s in the international, so prediction is, he will be the newest boogieman to Texas mechanics to blame someone other then their own greed.

Hog are you a union rep by any chance?

Changing engines is supposed to be a line function, being a junk crew is supposed to be a line function also. I don't see DFW complaining when they roll the broken junk over to DWH. We are a line hangar without line pay and the TWU let's it happen.

 

[WeAAsles]

Tim if the company brings the video of the LGA townhall will they have a problem convincing judge.Did our leaders get played?? Anything monetary will come out of whos treasury??

I’m not Tim. I’m Dave.

 

[bigjets]

Changing engines is supposed to be a line function, being a junk crew is supposed to be a line function also. I don't see DFW complaining when they roll the broken junk over to DWH. We are a line hangar without line pay and the TWU let's it happen.

I’m willing to bet DWH OH guys stay OT to do whatever line work they can.

Maybe that’s why GP is getting 50 line mechs assigned to DWH ramp and hgr bay. From what my buds tell me, the hangars are full at night.

It sounds disingenuous to complain about doing line work as an OH guy, when the union is getting AA to assign line mechs to do that work. Don’t forget that’s AA’s property, you just work for AA. You may not like the outcome but AA runs the airline not the association (they just collect dues). My suggestion to you, if you want line pay transfer to DFW.

What advantages does DWH have over DFW. Listening to you guys, sounds like you do a lot of line work at a cheaper pay rate. Don’t understand why you wouldn’t just transfer to DFW.