American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Deleted member 14439]

“Right now LUS farms out 50% of billable hours of heavy maintenance, and 100% of components can be farmed out and no line maintenance can be farmed out.

At LAA AA has the right to farm out 35% of the maintenance budget which is heavy and line.

The Association ask is a protected headcount at Base, and minimum amount of line stations. And a small percentage of line to be outsourced. Also they are asking for a protected headcount for the shops. So the shops headcount is equal to a minimum of 25% of heavy maintenance headcount, this number is separate from the protected headcount in base.

So in reality more work will come back in-house under this proposal.”

Yeah I watched this gawd awful attempt of whatever. They have agreed to the 50%. All this fist pounding and chest thumping by Samuelson is for what exactly? They have already capitulated on the big piece of scope, sacrificing LAA overhaul.

 

[usjacket]

I wish their were some legitimately proficient AMT’s that still came to this site that could explain these things.

Anyone know what ever happened to Overspeed?

Just stay off Maintenance threads and you won't have to deal with it.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yeah I watched this gawd awful attempt of whatever. They have agreed to the 50%. All this fist pounding and chest thumping by Samuelson is for what exactly? They have already capitulated on the big piece of scope, sacrificing LAA overhaul.

Ok if you protect a minimum headcount, protect cities and bring in more component work you essentially drive more work overall since it becomes ridiculous for the Company to farm out work when they are already paying an in house staff who is fully capable to perform the work.

And Gary did use the words that there are caveats attached to what the Company proposed for that 50%

dvlhog you can’t just think TWU when it comes to Scope. You have to think of the combination of TWU and IAM and the language in both agreements currently.

 

[WeAAsles]

Just stay off Maintenance threads and you won't have to deal with it.

Whoever you are do you have the ability to be able to explain it?

I think they might need some help in that area?

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Ok if you protect a minimum headcount, protect cities and bring in more component work you essentially drive more work overall since it becomes ridiculous for the Company to farm out work when they are already paying an in house staff who is fully capable to perform the work.

And Gary did use the words that there are caveats attached to what the Company proposed for that 50%

dvlhog you can’t just think TWU when it comes to Scope. You have to think of the combination of TWU and IAM and the language in both agreements currently.

Oh believe me Weez, I do think about the IAM "language" every time I read that 50% has already been agreed to.

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh believe me Weez, I do think about the IAM "language" every time I read that 50% has already been agreed to.

Ok so in other words you’re saying that you have zero interest or intention to try and learn what it means because it’s preferable to continue to pump out the 50% narrative because it sounds nice and controversial?

That’s agenda peddling if you ask me and I seriously thought you were better than that dvlhog.

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh believe me Weez, I do think about the IAM "language" every time I read that 50% has already been agreed to.

Oh and these are the types of comments that drove the most informed posters off of here years ago too BTW.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Ok so in other words you’re saying that you have zero interest or intention to try and learn what it means because it’s preferable to continue to pump out the 50% narrative because it sounds nice and controversial?

That’s agenda peddling if you ask me and I seriously thought you were better than that dvlhog.

Oh I want to know what is going on. I want to understand what we are fighting for. However all my questions and requests are met with a shrug of the shoulders and a bunch of "I don`t know". When GP s most recent attempt at back dooring DWH was pretty much the last straw for me. My own local president says he had no idea that language was in there and I believe him. The association hiearchy booting our elected presidents out of the room. The unwillingness to put out transparent and timely information that the members have asked for and deserve, has torpedoed ANY chance for any unity. We can ask questions until the cows come home but the arrogance of the association leadership from Samuelson on down will just keep us in the dark. The membership just sits here and waits for the other shoe to drop. What else do we not know. What else has Samuelson and GP agreed to that we do not know about?

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh I want to know what is going on. I want to understand what we are fighting for. However all my questions and requests are met with a shrug of the shoulders and a bunch of "I don`t know". When GP s most recent attempt at back dooring DWH was pretty much the last straw for me. My own local president says he had no idea that language was in there and I believe him. The association hiearchy booting our elected presidents out of the room. The unwillingness to put out transparent and timely information that the members have asked for and deserve, has torpedoed ANY chance for any unity. We can ask questions until the cows come home but the arrogance of the association leadership from Samuelson on down will just keep us in the dark. The membership just sits here and waits for the other shoe to drop. What else do we not know. What else has Samuelson and GP agreed to that we do not know about?

“Right now LUS farms out 50% of billable hours of heavy maintenance, and 100% of components can be farmed out and no line maintenance can be farmed out.

At LAA AA has the right to farm out 35% of the maintenance budget which is heavy and line.

The Association ask is a protected headcount at Base, and minimum amount of line stations. And a small percentage of line to be outsourced. Also they are asking for a protected headcount for the shops. So the shops headcount is equal to a minimum of 25% of heavy maintenance headcount, this number is separate from the protected headcount in base.

So in reality more work will come back in-house under this proposal.”

Ok if you protect a minimum headcount, protect cities and bring in more component work you essentially drive more work overall since it becomes ridiculous for the Company to farm out work when they are already paying an in house staff who is fully capable to perform the work.

And Gary did use the words that there are caveats attached to what the Company proposed for that 50%

dvlhog you can’t just think TWU when it comes to Scope. You have to think of the combination of TWU and IAM and the language in both agreements currently.

 

[Vortilon]

Vort don’t get me wrong I do feel just a little bit the same as you and would like to get this over with and cash in as well. I just really don’t like the price they’re asking for me to do that. And that’s honestly in pay, benefits, workrules and Scope.

But I have to ask how do you arrive at your 100K loss? For a little while in wages you were at the top of the industry. I don’t think your Holiday, Vacation and 401K loss put you at your figures. Besides our Contracts only became amendable last September. So despite wanting JCBA’s that September date is the Official start date.



There is a “current” card drive going on right now but it hasn’t been “revived” yet? You do know the definitions behind those two words right? One means “active” the other means “non active”

Out of curiosity does this guy’s idea intrigue you?

The $100K loss for the average LAA AMT is conservative.

Just spitballing here, but the numbers are figured conservatively.

It's 2019, we have been merged since roughly 2012. Ideally, we should have had a joint contract by 2013.
LAA AMTs get 5 holidays at 1.5 X pay that is $2500.00 per year less than 2.5 X pay X 6 years that is $15,000.
Add to that the loss of 5 holidays at 2.5 X pay figure roughly $3000 per year loss X 6 years that is: $18,000
Sick time accrual value current 5 days per year vs 10 X 6 years that is $15,000
Lost pay when calling in sick, figure 3 occurrences per year valued at $250 =$750 X 6 years that is $4500
Base pay increase figure $4.00 ph minimum X 6 years that is almost $50K right there
Lost 401K company match contribution that would be at least $4K more per year X 6 that is $24K
Lost one week of vacation value $2500.00 X 6 years that is $15K

That alone is almost $150,000.00. Now this is just off the top of my head, you can argue the 6 years down to 4 if you want - not gonna help too much.
I'm also leaving out shift differential, taxi premium, longevity pay, penalty hours, field trip pay, etc. I'm probably leaving some items out, point is - we are losing a shite ton o money.

Haven't watched the video.

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh I want to know what is going on. I want to understand what we are fighting for. However all my questions and requests are met with a shrug of the shoulders and a bunch of "I don`t know". When GP s most recent attempt at back dooring DWH was pretty much the last straw for me. My own local president says he had no idea that language was in there and I believe him. The association hiearchy booting our elected presidents out of the room. The unwillingness to put out transparent and timely information that the members have asked for and deserve, has torpedoed ANY chance for any unity. We can ask questions until the cows come home but the arrogance of the association leadership from Samuelson on down will just keep us in the dark. The membership just sits here and waits for the other shoe to drop. What else do we not know. What else has Samuelson and GP agreed to that we do not know about?

When you have the full agreement in front of you to make your ultimate decision then you can let your voice be heard what you like or don’t like.

IBT at UAL let their voices be heard on their first vote when they threw out a 95% no vote. Then they voted yes for their next offer. Same with AMFA at SWA.

I didn’t hear those guys hiding anything in those videos. But our own paranoia will always have us believing their out to get us.

That’s how us Humans seem to be designed.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

When you have the full agreement in front of you to make your ultimate decision then you can let your voice be heard what you like or don’t like.

IBT at UAL let their voices be heard on their first vote when they threw out a 95% no vote. Then they voted yes for their next offer. Same with AMFA at SWA.

I didn’t hear those guys hiding anything in those videos. But our own paranoia will always have us believing their out to get us.

That’s how us Humans seem to be designed.

Well I certainly hope your assumption that the membership will get to vote is accurate. As far as "I didn’t hear those guys hiding anything in those videos" of course you didn't. If you did then they would be doing a poor job of hiding stuff. The language GP inserted poaching DWH jobs for DFW has been in since August of 2018. I only wish the association put as much effort into getting the membership an ILC as they do in hiding stuff from us.

 

[WeAAsles]

The $100K loss for the average LAA AMT is conservative.

Just spitballing here, but the numbers are figured conservatively.

It's 2019, we have been merged since roughly 2012. Ideally, we should have had a joint contract by 2013.
LAA AMTs get 5 holidays at 1.5 X pay that is $2500.00 per year less than 2.5 X pay X 6 years that is $15,000.
Add to that the loss of 5 holidays at 2.5 X pay figure roughly $3000 per year loss X 6 years that is: $18,000
Sick time accrual value current 5 days per year vs 10 X 6 years that is $15,000
Lost pay when calling in sick, figure 3 occurrences per year valued at $250 =$750 X 6 years that is $4500
Base pay increase figure $4.00 ph minimum X 6 years that is almost $50K right there
Lost 401K company match contribution that would be at least $4K more per year X 6 that is $24K
Lost one week of vacation value $2500.00 X 6 years that is $15K

That alone is almost $150,000.00. Now this is just off the top of my head, you can argue the 6 years down to 4 if you want - not gonna help too much.
I'm also leaving out shift differential, taxi premium, longevity pay, penalty hours, field trip pay, etc. I'm probably leaving some items out, point is - we are losing a shite ton o money.

Haven't watched the video.

Dude you’re making up figures from years ago where nothing had ever even been agreed on. Your wage figures alone don’t make sense. If you’re comparing to current AMFA they only just got those raises. You want to put them back to 6 years ago? Seriously?

In 2016 you went 1% above the top of the industry at that time. You can’t put $4.00 per hour and all those things back to 2013. HELL NO.

And they aren’t bringing back Penalty Hours unfortunately. And quite a few of those other thing the Company still hasn’t agreed on.

 

[WeAAsles]

Well I certainly hope your assumption that the membership will get to vote is accurate. As far as "I didn’t hear those guys hiding anything in those videos" of course you didn't. If you did then they would be doing a poor job of hiding stuff. The language GP inserted poaching DWH jobs for DFW has been in since August of 2018. I only wish the association put as much effort into getting the membership an ILC as they do in hiding stuff from us.

Ok this poaching language I would be interested in reading a point/ counterpoint on?

And if they don’t let us vote I’ll be the first one signing cards to join this weird guy’s Union that he runs from his Studio Apartment.

 

[B737 driver]

Dude that’s the first WINNER I’ve given you in awhile.

To be honest this comment you just made may be your best ever and you should hang it up on a Wall.

Weazz I am 16 years from retirement, God willing. I will be honest I just had my panties in a wad, and being IGM and not trusting my union. So when I finally quit focusing on me, and supported my union, and remembered being a Steward my eyes got open, to what was really at stake in our fight.