American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[swamt]

Dude I’m not going to go back and forth on this with you. I told you that it’s not my area of expertise and I was only sharing what I asked a friend to write for me.

All the posters who had the most technical expertise were run off of here long ago.

I use to really enjoy reading their input.

"The most technical expertise?" Really?? 700 was the worse one spreding all the misinformation about the vote on this asso. even flat out lied about the NMB having authority over said vote. Nice try there spin boy. We all know 700 was all about there chiefy.
And now your language about the jobs going away as minimal and only is just a union boy trying to sell to the membership a complete piece of crap especially about the outsourcing and the job losses that will come with that. How the fuk can you support such a thing and be part of a union??? You are pathetic weezal...

 

[SkydrolJunkie]

It’s not a failure. It’s just not supported by many people who are a part of Negotiations who don’t live in those expensive cities. Unfortunately many people don’t look kindly on people in different geographical locations making more than them as a greed mechanism that they’re happy to be more comfortable than someone else out there.

They don’t care about the massive disparities between say living in NYC or LAX against DFW or TUL. The “If you don’t like it you can move” crowd.

Anyway can you find me an Airline Contract in any group where the COLA exists before you try to just target one particular Union?

Yes it is failure, but maybe not in your view. It is failure to look out for the better of the membership in certain situations.

I know you can't believe it, but the TWU does F up every now and then.

And I could care less if other airline contracts have cola or not. This is about our airline and our union!

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes it is failure, but maybe not in your view. It is failure to look out for the better of the membership in certain situations.

I know you can't believe it, but the TWU does F up every now and then.

And I could care less if other airline contracts have cola or not. This is about our airline and our union!

Of course the people who have been in the TWU have F’d up in the past, present and I’m sure the future as well just like all us imperfect little scurrying Human Beings do.

But that doesn’t mean crap as to why you aren’t getting a COLA. And again a lot of people in DFW and TUL would say “Why the F should you get paid more than I do when we do the same work”

Again find me where in the Airline Industry you find COLA in any contracts and that way if it was common practice you would have an easier argument to make why you aren’t getting it?

 

[swamt]

It might be better to say how far the conversation would go with the "right" union.

Here at United, the mechanics lost our contract rights to R&D under the IAM, which represented both AMTs and FS.

We lost our remaining rights to aircraft movement under the teamsters, who represented only AMTs

So all the "rights" lost at UA was done by the IAM, yes, and the teamsters, yes. But no rights lost while they were AMFA? Hmmmm... Very interesting indeed. Wake up people, wake up...

 

[swamt]

Maintenance lost revenue pushes before I started. I'm talking about moves from terminal to hangar. i.e. engine run and taxi..

What I appear to be hearing all of you saying is we should give up that work.

An I hearing right?

Man, it's been so long so not sure if I am correct here, but wasn't the loss of rev pushes done in the concessions 1983 contract?

 

[swamt]

My position is if AA wants the plane taxied, maintenance does it.
If AA wants the plane supertugged then ramp or maint can do it.

I don’t think we should give up contract improvements to do work that isn’t maint related, meaning wing walking and towing, that language will always be in the contract, we should learn to never give up pay for jobs, hasn’t worked yet and won’t work in the future, just ask MCI AFW TAESL.

Maint will always do moves as we can do that on shift and still turn wrenches on OT, and as the flight schedule changes AMTs can be used for other types of maint shift bids. Basically the ramp is under staffed and over worked as it is and will not be able to handle all the moves at any station.

All I can say is, the movement incidents increased big time when we changed some of our movements to ramp. Damaged a/c doubled if not tripled after ramp took over. Mechanics were no displeased so much as the o/t increased for the mechanics in the hangars to fix all the damaged a/c where some of them takes days and sometimes weeks and that's a lot of o/t to go around for many...

 

[swamt]

Just like we have a hard time keeping guys in MDW, BWI , and OAK.

Did you see that SJC bid? Oak invaded San Jose and now Oak is empty of many AMT's. They will more than likely go unfilled and will have to hire off the streets.

 

[robbedagain]

I always felt a COLA should seriously be in any contract for those who work/live in states such as California n N.Y. That would be enticing for people to stay

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Of course the people who have been in the TWU have F’d up in the past, present and I’m sure the future as well just like all us imperfect little scurrying Human Beings do.

Enter the apologist.

But that doesn’t mean crap as to why you aren’t getting a COLA. And again a lot of people in DFW and TUL would say “Why the F should you get paid more than I do when we do the same work”

It's very obvious (in my mind at least) why there is no COLA. Because American Airlines is based out of DFW (the line) and has their largest maintenance base in Tulsa (maintenance).

However I agree with the if you don't like it move crowd. Not because I can't recognize the pay disparity, but because changing it is an uphill battle that I doubt will be remedied during most people's careers. Moving is obviously the path of least resistance to correct the income disparity.

I mean you have to laugh. One of the ideals of the UNION is to correct income disparity and provide equal pay among the membership. Yet......

 

[SkydrolJunkie]

Enter the apologist.

Yup!

 

[Kev3188]

... can you find me an Airline Contract in any group where the COLA exists before you try to just target one particular Union?

We had it in ours at NWA...

 

[Kev3188]

Yup!

He’s right on time.

 

[SkydrolJunkie]

We had it in ours at NWA...

Oh crap, say it wasn't negotiated by AMFA!

 

[bigjets]

All I can say is, the movement incidents increased big time when we changed some of our movements to ramp. Damaged a/c doubled if not tripled after ramp took over. Mechanics were no displeased so much as the o/t increased for the mechanics in the hangars to fix all the damaged a/c where some of them takes days and sometimes weeks and that's a lot of o/t to go around for many...

However AA wants to handle it is fine with me, pay now pay later, theres a reason why AA has maint do all aircraft movements, and it's not because AA is scared of the TWU. No reason to give up pay. I can tell you from talking to FSCs, they would not want to be busy all day like our move crews are.

 

[1AA]

Oh crap, say it wasn't negotiated by AMFA!

They also had pay scales based on years of experience. In other words if you hired on with 15 years of commercial aircraft experience and top pay was 10 years you went to top pay at day one. Other seniority was date of hire for purposes of bidding, vacation and layoffs.