American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[1986Mekanic]

I still have my DR3. I was on the Move Team at my hub. I've handled all types of aircraft, and moving back jetways. It's part of the job. I wen't back to the general ramp because there are some pros and cons to the job, and since the pool of people to trade with is limited, I left, so I can make more money (ie: trades and OT) rampside. The job is not for everyone, and in my hub, it is senior.

Do you guys think that once this contract is done, will you guys have a dedicated move teams across your system?

We currently have dedicated move teams across the system. Why should we give up that work, which survived BK and 2003 concessions and the Corp makes billions?

 

[WeAAsles]

We currently have dedicated move teams across the system. Why should we give up that work, which survived BK and 2003 concessions and the Corp makes billions?

I forget the year but it was after 2003 that the Company transferred Aircraft moves back to Maintenance. I did quite a few Pad pulls and pick ups back when I was in DFW. It was part of the Gate crews assignments.

 

[WeAAsles]

Not sure if you know that ramp moves airplanes at other airports, not only does ramp push planes off the gate with pax on board in crowded terminal areas, but ramp also tows aircraft with high speed tugs on taxiways while communicating with ground control.

Don’t be so arrogant, at ORD we all taxi airplanes (yes that takes a certain amount of skill) but we also work on aircraft, both terminal and hangar.

Like I said earlier, if AA wanted FSCs to move aircraft, they would be moving aircraft. If AA wanted to do away with OH, AA would have done that too during BK.

We’re actually supposed to push in gear 1 at all times and obviously that makes sense when you have a plane load of passengers you’re not looking to toss around when you start to break.

On the Pad pushes I use to do them in 3rd gear and like Metal said in an earlier post when you do them often you get very good at them. AMT’s would be break riding though.

I always felt bad when there wasn’t an AMT there to put the stairs on so the guy could get out.

 

[T5towbar]

Driving

We’re actually supposed to push in gear 1 at all times and obviously that makes sense when you have a plane load of passengers you’re not looking to toss around when you start to break.

On the Pad pushes I use to do them in 3rd gear and like Metal said in an earlier post when you do them often you get very good at them. AMT’s would be break riding though.

I always felt bad when there wasn’t an AMT there to put the stairs on so the guy could get out.

Driving a Douglas Supertug isn't that hard (you have to use the cameras as well). We have two sizes: A smaller version for the RJ's and the regional stuff, and a larger version for everything else.
If you have basic pushing skills, and can spin aircraft from corner gates, you can definitely drive one.

I think that in my travels throughout our system, I think that we are the only hub that we do not push straight back and cut the plane loose. We don't have the real estate to do such, and we have to spin and move the aircraft to a dispatch line for release. All the other airports seem to have enough room to push straight off the gate and release. I wish I have that luxury every day, but I dont. I have learned how to push from corner gates, every gate in my airport from Express to Mainline, you cannot push straight back and release.

Sort of off topic to lighten things up: What aircraft do you think is the hardest to push?
Me personally, I think that the 737-900 is the toughest for me.....

 

[robbedagain]

Driving



Driving a Douglas Supertug isn't that hard (you have to use the cameras as well). We have two sizes: A smaller version for the RJ's and the regional stuff, and a larger version for everything else.
If you have basic pushing skills, and can spin aircraft from corner gates, you can definitely drive one.

I think that in my travels throughout our system, I think that we are the only hub that we do not push straight back and cut the plane loose. We don't have the real estate to do such, and we have to spin and move the aircraft to a dispatch line for release. All the other airports seem to have enough room to push straight off the gate and release. I wish I have that luxury every day, but I dont. I have learned how to push from corner gates, every gate in my airport from Express to Mainline, you cannot push straight back and release.

Sort of off topic to lighten things up: What aircraft do you think is the hardest to push?
Me personally, I think that the 737-900 is the toughest for me.....

DCA no straight back push n release. We have to push in certain situations or gates out on to active taxiway. Ive found the 738s n Airbus are easiest to push. The 757..hardest esp on 2 different gates

 

[WeAAsles]

Driving



Driving a Douglas Supertug isn't that hard (you have to use the cameras as well). We have two sizes: A smaller version for the RJ's and the regional stuff, and a larger version for everything else.
If you have basic pushing skills, and can spin aircraft from corner gates, you can definitely drive one.

I think that in my travels throughout our system, I think that we are the only hub that we do not push straight back and cut the plane loose. We don't have the real estate to do such, and we have to spin and move the aircraft to a dispatch line for release. All the other airports seem to have enough room to push straight off the gate and release. I wish I have that luxury every day, but I dont. I have learned how to push from corner gates, every gate in my airport from Express to Mainline, you cannot push straight back and release.

Sort of off topic to lighten things up: What aircraft do you think is the hardest to push?
Me personally, I think that the 737-900 is the toughest for me.....

In DFW a few of the Widebody gates had the big Batmobile claws to push planes off the gates with. And yes it was bumpkin baggage handlers who were driving them going golly gee wiz can I really.

I think all of our Hubs would have spots where you have to do angular maneuvers to get the plane to its final resting spot. When you dominate a few Terminals you’d have to expect that.

To me every plane is about the same once you get the feel of it? Pushing a Widebody is nice cause you can see under it to line up the back wheels without having to do a little guessing and straightening.

Funny at least for me I find when I don’t push for a while I start to lose the feel for it and it takes me some practice for some reason when I do one again.

 

[WeAAsles]

DCA no straight back push n release. We have to push in certain situations or gates out on to active taxiway. Ive found the 738s n Airbus are easiest to push. The 757..hardest esp on 2 different gates

Absolutely if you’re cornering the smaller plane would be preferable.

 

[1986Mekanic]

Maintenance lost revenue pushes before I started. I'm talking about moves from terminal to hangar. i.e. engine run and taxi..

What I appear to be hearing all of you saying is we should give up that work.

An I hearing right?

 

[1986Mekanic]

Are you all saying maintenance should give away aircraft moves between hangars and terminals at all cities that currently have dedicated move crews to run and taxi the aircraft?

If so, I am astonished and disappointed.

 

[WeAAsles]

Maintenance lost revenue pushes before I started. I'm talking about moves from terminal to hangar. i.e. engine run and taxi..

What I appear to be hearing all of you saying is we should give up that work.

An I hearing right?

You’re hearing wrong from me. I’m not going to run with any narrative that it takes a Rocket Scientist to be able to do the work though. I’ve seen a lot of pretty retarded looking people in both Fleet and Maintenance somehow be able to figure out how to drive their cars to work and put their shoes on the right feet.

The current official position in Fleet is that work is yours.

 

[WeAAsles]

Are you all saying maintenance should give away aircraft moves between hangars and terminals at all cities that currently have dedicated move crews to run and taxi the aircraft?

If so, I am astonished and disappointed.

Nope. That’s your work.

 

[T5towbar]

Are you all saying maintenance should give away aircraft moves between hangars and terminals at all cities that currently have dedicated move crews to run and taxi the aircraft?

If so, I am astonished and disappointed.

Can I clarify something:

Aircraft TAXI (moving an aircraft under it's own power) is and has and always will be an MX function. They will move aircraft during engine tests (they always call up ramp and CS to move the gate and push the aircraft back / marshal in) like a regular flight for a engine test run, or they will drive it directly to the MX hangars, but they will "drive" the aircraft under it's own power. That is their job and not in our scope. They work with us and we work with them.

Aircraft MOVEMENT (moving an aircraft either with a Supertug or a towbar/pushback) is a ramp function. When I first started the job many moons ago, we were always told that we had to push around aircraft, because MX was busy with other duties, and planes had to be immediately moved to open up a gate, etc. So we were taught how to push (ride the brake) and tow (especially into a tow-in gate).

If done correctly, IMHO, I don't think that it encroaches one each others scope.

 

[bigjets]

My position is if AA wants the plane taxied, maintenance does it.
If AA wants the plane supertugged then ramp or maint can do it.

I don’t think we should give up contract improvements to do work that isn’t maint related, meaning wing walking and towing, that language will always be in the contract, we should learn to never give up pay for jobs, hasn’t worked yet and won’t work in the future, just ask MCI AFW TAESL.

Maint will always do moves as we can do that on shift and still turn wrenches on OT, and as the flight schedule changes AMTs can be used for other types of maint shift bids. Basically the ramp is under staffed and over worked as it is and will not be able to handle all the moves at any station.

 

[conehead777]

To taxi you have to be aircraft gen fam qualified and engine run up and taxi. Qualified

 

[WeAAsles]

My position is if AA wants the plane taxied, maintenance does it.
If AA wants the plane supertugged then ramp or maint can do it.

I don’t think we should give up contract improvements to do work that isn’t maint related, meaning wing walking and towing, that language will always be in the contract, we should learn to never give up pay for jobs, hasn’t worked yet and won’t work in the future, just ask MCI AFW TAESL.

Maint will always do moves as we can do that on shift and still turn wrenches on OT, and as the flight schedule changes AMTs can be used for other types of maint shift bids. Basically the ramp is under staffed and over worked as it is and will not be able to handle all the moves at any station.

In MIA they now have a Wing walking crew of FSC’s that come to the gate when there’s a Maintenance pull off the gate. It started about a year ago under the last last Local President here.