American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Vortilon]

I'm not sure I understand why some folks don't see the picture. Instead you just continually harp on the Ass for this and that.. I don't care what comparo they put out, the company's crap is just that, crap. The scope alone should be enough to stop you in your track, article 5 missing, alone should be enough, all the other things I've brought up after listening to the podcasts should be enough.

Think about it, on the line, getting rid of close to 600 move crew jobs, 500 avionics jobs from around the system is going have a huge ripple, forcing lots of people back to midnights. Those jobs are premium shift and days off jobs,. Now lets take it one step further, the company proposal is for move crew to just move ots, well the vast majority of moves are in service, making room on the gates for inbound flights. So, fleet wont be doing the moves, there scope limits them to loading and unloading. So, whom do you think is going to do all those moves?

A VENDOR..

This piece alone should give anyone cause to think hard before wanting to vote on the companies crap. Not to mention all the other things.

Getting rid of the move crews? We run into delays daily at DFW - using 7 taxi crews to get A/C between the hangar and terminal. We have 3 barely functioning Goldhofers with non reliable radios. Good luck!

 

[WeAAsles]

Yup, 50% base maintenance is in yesterdays year old union proposals.

This is where 700 came in handy. He knew how it all worked. But.

 

[WeAAsles]

Good, I`m glad I was not "misremembering". Did you catch this nugget from yesterdays association update?

"We know that some portions of these original proposals would have forced the Company into hiring more members than maybe they wanted, but as the world’s largest airline, it seemed to the Association that this fell in line with their promise of doing the right thing for their workers."

Well even despite the 50% the line we’ve been hearing now is they just want to maintain the same headcount they have today.

Obviously to do that something would have had to have been taken off the table in the Associations proposals.

In Fleet they may have come off the Mail ask then if that’s the case?

You also have to think if the Association has moved off their proposals that they posted and the Company is still sticking with the same line in Townhalls on their Scope proposals from years ago, they may really be at an impasse where the Association is just not going to move any more?

Why should they BTW?

 

[Rogallo]

If you get your own Union do you think the TWU can ask for a refund on all the Money (And time) spent on trying to bring Aircraft Maintenance Outsourcing to light and stopping the practice?

AMFA showed its support for the TWU/IAM Association.
IBT showed its support for the TWU/IAM Association.
AMP never left the gate.

What now?

How about the IAM showing its support!

 

[WeAAsles]

Again the Ass needs to look into other areas that would be agreeable to break this stalemate if that’s even possible at this point

I’m sure they have if they’re still trying to reopen 16 cities. I would think opening more Cargo and Mail would be an acceptable trade for Catering. I’m sure Local 513 would give up Deicing in a heartbeat if they got mail as an exchange.

Don’t you think the Company should also consider moving to break the stalemate?

 

[Rogallo]

This is where 700 came in handy. He knew how it all worked. But.

.......he was a prick!

 

[Rogallo]

Anyone recall Isom saying in a video that the associations proposals would mean adding thousands of jobs?

Sorry, I don't listen a lot to habitual liars.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I’m LUS and don’t even agree with additional 3000 for us I think the bonus should be 5000 for all if not 6000, especially if they only offer 2.1 percent wages in the first year
And no I don’t care if our insurance cost go up because it’s just way things go I know how to manage my household just fine

what i say won't be popular...but, current aa mangt. can say the assoc. lus people should be doing hand-stands and back-flips due to this merger..and an additional $3k for lus assoc. is just rubbing it in laa, especially fleet.

- kept seniority from other pieces of lus, while seniority from pieces of laa went into the garbage.

- lus in non-hubs got a $4+ raise to come to laa levels, then all of us got the additional raises in 2016.

- kept the superior/cheaper insurance, while laa continued on with the lesser insurance.

- benefited from more holidays at higher levels of holiday pay.

- now, the company is proposing that lus get to keep their superior/cheaper insurance for an additional year AND get $3k more for the pain of transitioning to laa insurance.

if it's that painful, why do the current aa leaders want to preform surgery without anesthesia upon laa fleet?

as of right now, there is nothing for laa fleet, absolutely nothing. in fact, they want to take away much more scope not in balance with the stingy raises they proposed.

i really want the twu to acknowledge this and fight for it's 'legacy' members. to me, they dropped the ball on seniority, it would be tragic to drop the ball on the rest.

 

[WeAAsles]

How about the IAM showing its support!

To be completely honest they’re not exactly exuberant. But there is a small group protesting today in FLL. They’re only allowed a permit for 20 people a day to protest at the Airport by Broward County.

.......he was a prick!

He’s not dead. He is a prick and he’ll be the first to admit it. But he’s a prick who knows his chit very well. The others who did also were ran off by the rock throwers.

You know that’s a fact.

 

[WeAAsles]

what i say won't be popular...but, current aa mangt. can say the assoc. lus people should be doing hand-stands and back-flips due to this merger..and an additional $3k for lus assoc. is just rubbing it in laa, especially fleet.

- kept seniority from other pieces of lus, while seniority from pieces of laa went into the garbage.

- lus in non-hubs got a $4+ raise to come to laa levels, then all of us got the additional raises in 2016.

- kept the superior/cheaper insurance, while laa continued on with the lesser insurance.

- benefited from more holidays at higher levels of holiday pay.

- now, the company is proposing that lus get to keep their superior/cheaper insurance for an additional year AND get $3k more for the pain of transitioning to laa insurance.

if it's that painful, why do the current aa leaders want to preform surgery without anesthesia upon laa fleet?

as of right now, there is nothing for laa fleet, absolutely nothing. in fact, they want to take away much more scope not in balance with the stingy raises they proposed.

i really want the twu to acknowledge this and fight for it's 'legacy' members. to me, they dropped the ball on seniority, it would be tragic to drop the ball on the rest.

So you’re saying that you want the TWU and the IAM to start fighting against each other so the Company can pick on the bones?

Do you want the IAM Pension too? Remember their Company paid Pensions were frozen in 1992 and thrown on the PBGC in 1997 (I think)

They didn’t get any Equity in any of their Bankruptcies either.

 

[WeAAsles]

How about the IAM showing its support!

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Sorry, I don't listen a lot to habitual liars.

Except he was not lying. Here is a quote from yesterdays association update.

"We know that some portions of these original proposals would have forced the Company into hiring more members than maybe they wanted, but as the world’s largest airline, it seemed to the Association that this fell in line with their promise of doing the right thing for their workers."

 

[CremaDiLimone]

So you’re saying that you want the TWU and the IAM to start fighting against each other so the Company can pick on the bones?

Do you want the IAM Pension too? Remember their Company paid Pensions were frozen in 1992 and thrown on the PBGC in 1997 (I think)

They didn’t get any Equity in any of their Bankruptcies either.

i'm not saying that at all...in fact, you didn't dispute one point i made.

the rest? apples and oranges. i dropped the seniority argument, but currently, i can't look past the big zero aa is proposing to laa fleet.

laa was so strong financially (aa had more money in the bank during BK than us air ever had), route-wise, equipment-wise and talent-wise..that laa didn't need to freeze pensions in 1992 or try and terminate our pension prior to 2011.

aa filed for BK because they couldn't compete with airlines that had already failed and terminated their pensions and those former failed airlines didn't need to charge an additional $15 a ticket to keep up.

4 new CSMs in ord the past month...last year, they got rid of dozens of laa supervisors & managers. they got rid of gold in exchange for copper. people that ran the best airline in the world. people that actually know what a bank is.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm not sure I understand why some folks don't see the picture. Instead you just continually harp on the Ass for this and that.. I don't care what comparo they put out, the company's crap is just that, crap. The scope alone should be enough to stop you in your track, article 5 missing, alone should be enough, all the other things I've brought up after listening to the podcasts should be enough.

Think about it, on the line, getting rid of close to 600 move crew jobs, 500 avionics jobs from around the system is going have a huge ripple, forcing lots of people back to midnights. Those jobs are premium shift and days off jobs,. Now lets take it one step further, the company proposal is for move crew to just move ots, well the vast majority of moves are in service, making room on the gates for inbound flights. So, fleet wont be doing the moves, there scope limits them to loading and unloading. So, whom do you think is going to do all those moves?

A VENDOR..

This piece alone should give anyone cause to think hard before wanting to vote on the companies crap. Not to mention all the other things.

I think the Company actually does want to transfer flight movements on to us in Fleet. Obviously under any other circumstances we would welcome capturing that work but as of now it’s Fleets contention that that work is yours.

In a perfect World I’d love it if we picked back up Mail handling and you keep your move crews.

 

[WeAAsles]

i'm not saying that at all...in fact, you didn't dispute one point i made.

the rest? apples and oranges. i dropped the seniority argument, but currently, i can't look past the big zero aa is proposing to laa fleet.

laa was so strong financially (aa had more money in the bank during BK than us air ever had), route-wise, equipment-wise and talent-wise..that laa didn't need to freeze pensions in 1992 or try and terminate our pension prior to 2011.

aa filed for BK because they couldn't compete with airlines that had already failed and terminated their pensions and those former failed airlines didn't need to charge an additional $15 a ticket to keep up.

4 new CSMs in ord the past month...last year, they got rid of dozens of laa supervisors & managers. they got rid of gold in exchange for copper. people that ran the best airline in the world. people that actually know what a bank is.

Crema I don’t want to count them all myself but I think today’s American Airlines is made of close to 100 other Airlines combined? At the end of the day we all benefit equally from all that cobbling together don’t we?

And sorry but as much as I now think Parker and Isom are snake oil salesmen in the end I had nothing left but pure hatred for that old AMR crowd. They hated us and we mutually hated them. It was total War let’s not forget.

The 100 Grand Bar was the straw that broke my Camels back.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_American_Airlines