American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[dfw gen]

Correction if your a mechanic which I believe you are. Call the vp of the ramp, he will confirm it. I’m not sure who the vp of Dfw maintenance is.

i actually transferred to aus not in dfw anymore. but ill ask if i get a chance. and yes i am a mechanic.

 

[charlie Brown]

i actually transferred to aus not in dfw anymore. but ill ask if i get a chance. and yes i am a mechanic.

Ok, I’m sure you will. At least you back up what you say! I respect that! Just like when I asked for you to give me a call. You did.

Alright, I gotta go. Ttyl.

 

[swamt]

Lets start parking them

Fantastic idea. Remember, legit wright ups...

If we go to a peb, you don’t have to accept what is offered. The membership will have a say and can then vote. Your angry I know from never getting to vote on the association. I get that. I have said on here before. I think everyone should have got to vote. Especially if you are twu and you had the majority. But it didn’t happen that way. I can’t help that. So you can sit and sulk forever, or we can move forward and do the best we can. Not saying you shouldn’t sit and sulk. If I were in your shoes, I might do the same thing. But I do know, that’s not going to accomplish anything. So are we going to use that forever as a reason to do nothing? That’s the question that needs to be asked.
Again, not trying to be a smartass, I probably and might feel the same way if I was you. I’m not trying to defend the no vote. But I am saying, that’s done. Let’s move forward.

Really CB? C'mon man. These guys have heard this before. "you guys will have a vote" more than once.
You know what CB? At my co. we (the membership) do have a say so in rather to go arbitration or not. So tell us why doesn't the membership of AA have that very same option???

Laugh all you want if you think that’s funny.
I’m telling you, that you will vote if it goes to a peb. We won’t just accept what the peb decides. It more than likely won’t be in our favor. Why do you think the company is pushing to get there?? I can assure you, it’s not because they feel that it would go our way.

Again since when do these men and women get a chance to vote on anything with this fiasco, BS, pathetic union called an Employee Association??? They have all heard this before MORE THAN ONCE!!!

Are you suggesting a job action?

Never suggest a JA. Just work per the books. It's that simple brother.

 

[swamt]

There will be a vote if it goes to a peb. Copy and past this. We will see who is correct.

You say that all you want. This membership will not EVER believe they will have another vote. The TWU and IAM has completely ruined that faith. Keep promising buddy. They (TWU and IAM) even promised a vote on the asso. Where is that vote CB? What happened? It was planned. And you know it full well.

 

[conehead777]

Like I said to Dfwgen. If I was twu. I would probably feel the same. But again, you will vote on a peb decision.
And yes you can call me a bigwig if you want. But I spent 33 years on the ramp. So I know where I came from.

Release the proposals from the union and company From last week

 

[conehead777]

You see. You make my exact point from my previous post. You blame the IAM for you not having these things.
Info: It was AA that put you into bankruptcy, not the IAM.
It is AA that is choosing not to give you your sick time and holidays unless you agree to give up thousand of jobs.
I guess the question that needs to be asked here, is, are you willing to give up thousands of your current jobs to get your holidays and sick time? If you are? Then yes, that’s the unions fault for not letting you vote for what’s being offered. Guilty as charged.

Show us the proof no one believes you. Post both proposals show us in writing where the company said there going to take jobs. Are cut day and afternoon shifts. And it is easy for you to tell us twu members to wait when you just got a 30000 a year raise plus all your other perks. So I say put up the proposals and let the members living under them to see everything in writing.

 

[conehead777]

But you went through your bankruptcy before the merger also. So what’s the difference? And Like I said on a earlier post. Why is the blame not at the company. The IAM and association is trying to get you the things your talking about. But as of right now. We have to give up thousands of jobs to get that. Is that the Association’s fault?

I blame the twu for not getting snap back in the 03 contract the pilots union did.

 

[B737 driver]

Fantastic idea. Remember, legit wright ups...


Really CB? C'mon man. These guys have heard this before. "you guys will have a vote" more than once.
You know what CB? At my co. we (the membership) do have a say so in rather to go arbitration or not. So tell us why doesn't the membership of AA have that very same option???


Again since when do these men and women get a chance to vote on anything with this fiasco, BS, pathetic union called an Employee Association??? They have all heard this before MORE THAN ONCE!!!


Never suggest a JA. Just work per the books. It's that simple brother.

Our own paperwork changes all the time, so SWA wanted compliance, and they got compliance.

 

[737823]

And you are the perfect example of what I posted

Yes they stopped paying into our pensions in February of 2005 and terminated our pensions. We went three years with only a 3% DCP. And now face another reduction in our pensions.

We lost 46% of the maintenance workforce in 2005, we took three rounds of concessions in two bankruptcies in less than two years. Fleet then took another 40% cut to the IAMNPF as they were in it before maintenance. We got no equity, nothing.

It’s not the IAM’s fault you were the last to the bankruptcy party. And our IAM Maintenance CBA was abrogated in February of 2005. And after our first bankruptcy the company violated or CBA and farmed out ten planes. We won in arbitration and they filed bankruptcy the second time and we lost over $300 million from the arbitration award.

So you are so willing to throw the IAM Members under the bus and force concessions on them to line your own pocket. Your nothing more than a greedy SOB. Forcing the IAM side to take your medical is a paycut to them, and not to you. But you don’t give a crap, your such a great unionist.

Doug stopped negotiating with the IAM and secretly went behind our backs and negotiated with you and you didn’t even work for Doug and US, that caused a delay in raises and gains to the IAM side, yet no one complained and whines and talked bad about the TWU on the IAM side.

We lost vacation, sick time and holidays from 2002 till 2014.

Did the IAM force concessions on you or was it Horton?

And if there wasn’t a merger you would still be making 26% less and would just be entering Section 6 last September.

Once again, open your eyes, it’s not any IAM members fault that you have less holidays, vacation and sick time, it’s AA’s fault.

But it’s easier to blame the IAM for your own yes vote on concessions instead of AA.

And you play right into management’s hands.

CBA envy is not a good thing.

Not the first time we have heard this, is it?

In 2005 our CBA was abrogated, and the pension we had from US was terminated and replaced with a DCP and we already had a 401k match due to an arbitration win.

In 2008 with the Transition Agreement bringing the former HP members over M&R voted for the IAMNPF in lieu of the 401k Match.

So yes all mechanic and related at PMUS/PMHP voted on entering the pension plan.

Josh

 

[737823]

For P. Rez

P. REZ said: ↑
Traymark,

I'm not saying you should have to take it, but, the MATH is what it it is. FACT.

P. Rez
The ”math” may well indicate that but you haven’t adjusted for risk and the probability of default and/or reductions in payments to plan participants and future beneficiaries. Hasn’t the IAMNPF done that several times now? Have you compared the accurarial value vs. fair value of the plans assets and liabilities? The plan may tout that its 101% funded but that’s on an accurial value basis, the fair value analysis published by Credit Suisse several years ago is more conservative and paints a very different picture.

http://www.airlineforums.com/thread...proved-2-0-version.61143/page-39#post-1288324

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

I understand your frustrations. But no you wouldn’t vote on going to arbitration. That’s what your negotiating team does. Now I know some of you, maybe your one, maybe your not, would just soon not have a negotiating team. The company could just keep putting out proposals for a vote until it gets voted in. Maybe if enough of you feel that way, that’s how it can go next time.

But the IAM ( not sure about twu) will never agree on a arbitrator deciding for our members. A arbitrators decision is binding. Ask the pilots and flight attendants how happy they are that they decided to go to arbitration. I can tell you they will say they made a huge mistake. At least if we go to a peb, that decision isn’t binding. Our members will get to vote on whatever the outcome is.

Just to clarify, Sito said the same thing that you just said to the Railway members last year, but then flipped like a pancake and agreed to arbitration after the members rejected his TA. Not trying to engage in a long conversation with you but it simply is not true what you are saying. The IAM has agreed, and did less than 8 months ago for 10,000 members under the RLA. It was the transportation department so I'm guessing you knew that and are simply being intellectually dishonest again.

And FWIW, the reason why Sito agreed is because the NMB told them they would never go to a PEB and that it would be ICE for as long as it took for Sito to agree to arbitration. And, not sure if you know or not, but an arbitrator can't pick and choose. The arbitrator will rule to accept the company offer or the union offer. Guess which one the arbitrator ruled for in this case? You ought to read the case because your guy Richie Pantoja did an incredibly crap job in presenting the information to the arbitrator.

Now, carry on I guess with more of your dishonesty!

 

[MetalMover]

Laugh all you want if you think that’s funny.
I’m telling you, that you will vote if it goes to a peb. We won’t just accept what the peb decides. It more than likely won’t be in our favor. Why do you think the company is pushing to get there?? I can assure you, it’s not because they feel that it would go our way.

If you read the letter from the association, they stated that the company would most likely lobby for a peb which they said could favor the company. They are prepared to reject the recommendations of a peb.. So that means we would NOT get to vote on it.

https://www.local591.com/docs/Association Bulletin 426 (1).pdf

 

[Tim Nelson]

another thing. The agcs did get a $31,000 pay raise and over 2 years their raise is $50,000 and 30% increase in their grand lodge pension. Mr brown doesnt understand thats why he lies.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

They still have not put any videos up on Jetnet for the SOTA so I have to go on what you guys listened to then.

You heard a Company Representative today state that they plan to post the “Entire Full Text all the Language” proposals for all workgroups on Jetnet that they claim they gave to the Association?

If so I would be very interested in seeing that although I have a feeling what they put out after the SOTA is all we’re going to get?

Does it matter what the company says on video? They have also stated they were willing to meet anytime, anywhere. They have stated on video Delta +7%, Delta +3% and an industry leading contract. Remember Parker saying he would have a table built to negotiate at hdq? Parker, Isom, Seymour, et al are liars. No different than seedy used car salesman outside the front gate of every military base. Liars and conmen, seems to be a common theme on all sides of this debacle.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

another thing. The agcs did get a $31,000 pay raise and over 2 years their raise is $50,000 and 30% increase in their grand lodge pension. Mr brown doesnt understand thats why he lies.

Maybe I missed it Tim but if this is accurate could you post the link or documentation for all to see?