American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

The company merging had zero to do with the memberships choice of representation. A choice we were denied by the quick footed back stabbing AFL-CIO aided by the NMB. The use of long ago signed dues check off cards was a scam to protect the coffers of these two 'unions". If I registered as a democrat 30 years ago, does that give the party the right to mark me down as voting in their favor in every election going forward? No, of course not. So why would a dues check off card from 30 years ago have any weight or bearing on my choice TODAY? It was and is a scam to protect the union cash cow. It has done irreparable harm to this membership.

And without a CORPORATE merger we never would have been in an easy position for people who wanted a representation change to have that choice dropped right into their laps.

If a majority ever really wants that they need to put in that incredibly difficult effort.

Don’t get me wrong here. I think the rushed formation of the Association was terrible and not well thought out. And I can’t stand how the Association Constitution is written with its Horse trading of Members which is an absolute money grab. And no real method for any tie breakers in Negotiations. (And no IMO the TWU shouldn’t be able to bully because of its size over the IAM)

 

[WeAAsles]

Weez the animosity from the TWA ACQUISITION is NOTHING compared to what is to come in this association. Imho we will never recover from this debacle.

What do you mean what is to come? IMO the day we sign off on JCBA’s you’re not going to hear a legitimate peep about the Association until it’s picked up again 5 years down the line.

The TWU will service the Contracts for TWU Members and the the IAM will service the Contracts for IAM Members.

And the majority of people not looking to just make up an issue will all live happily ever after.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

What do you mean what is to come? IMO the day we sign off on JCBA’s you’re not going to hear a legitimate peep about the Association until it’s picked up again 5 years down the line.

The TWU will service the Contracts for TWU Members and the the IAM will service the Contracts for IAM Members.

And the majority of people not looking to just make up an issue will all live happily ever after.

Well, I disagree buddy. I have zero confidence we, the TWU members, will ever be made whole from what we are enduring with this association debacle. We are treated as second class citizens with inferior benefits since this thing took off. I`m tired, frustrated, and angry. Pessimistic would be putting it mildly. We are screwed.

 

[WeAAsles]

The IAM will come up with all sorts of excuses to justify their existence at NAA.

We all know where they should be!

The IAM doesn’t have to make any excuses at all. They exist at the NAA because we had a merger that brought “THEIR” Airline together with ours.

They’re here because both the TWU and IAM agreed to form a partnership to collectively bargain for all the members both current and future.

And they’re here because the NMB accepted and certified their petition to be here.

 

[WeAAsles]

Well, I disagree buddy. I have zero confidence we, the TWU members, will ever be made whole from what we are enduring with this association debacle. We are treated as second class citizens with inferior benefits since this thing took off. I`m tired, frustrated, and angry. Pessimistic would be putting it mildly. We are screwed.

And both you and I have the right to be angry and frustrated. We earned that right particularly over the last 16 years.

And I don’t know what being made whole really means but no that’s never going to happen.

Speaking for myself I just want a nice comfortable rest of my life to live out. Maybe a little less having to argue with people out there. A little more peaceful.

 

[Kev3188]

The company merging had zero to do with the memberships choice of representation. A choice we were denied by the quick footed back stabbing AFL-CIO aided by the NMB. The use of long ago signed dues check off cards was a scam to protect the coffers of these two 'unions". If I registered as a democrat 30 years ago, does that give the party the right to mark me down as voting in their favor in every election going forward? No, of course not. So why would a dues check off card from 30 years ago have any weight or bearing on my choice TODAY? It was and is a scam to protect the union cash cow. It has done irreparable harm to this membership.

^This^

Worse, it telegraphed (and continues to do so) a position of weakness to the company.

Correct. The main reasoning behind forming the Association was supposedly to prevent any animosity had the TWU pulled the trigger and filed to represent the entire Membership. Plus of course the IAM losing a Membership they had been representing since 1995 and 1946 due to another Airline merger outside their control.

The AFL/CIO was not interested in observing another scenario like the one that happened after TWA where a lot of animosity unfortunately still exists to this day between people in both Unions.

No, the main reason was both unions' fear that neither could win an election. So, rather than risk having to abide by the will of their respective memberships, they just decided for them. That's anathema to just about every Labor principle there is.

If a majority ever really wants that they need to put in that incredibly difficult effort.

Don’t get me wrong here. I think the rushed formation of the Association was terrible and not well thought out. And I can’t stand how the Association Constitution is written with its Horse trading of Members which is an absolute money grab. And no real method for any tie breakers in Negotiations. (And no IMO the TWU shouldn’t be able to bully because of its size over the IAM)

When you check your ignored content-and I know you do- you'll see that on this, we agree 100%.

 

[Rogallo]

Speaking for myself I just want a nice comfortable rest of my life to live out. Maybe a little less having to argue with people out there. A little more peaceful.

You could quit the forum. That might be a little bit of peace. Just sayin'!

They’re here because both the TWU and IAM agreed to form a partnership to collectively bargain for all the members both current and future.

I am a TWU member and I still don't remember agreeing to said "partnership"

 

[Tim Nelson]

Divided yes... divided by corporate trolls, and anti-union loyalist... not the afl-cio. And, it's GREED alright ... but more along the lines of quarterly capitalist, and wall street. The company's concessionary stance is clearly to make the stock holders more confident... https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/04/options-traders-think-one-airline-stock-may-be-about-to-surge.html

Parker made over 19.2 million on stock compensation in 2018... the higher the stock goes... the more they make!

Parker is greedy and proud of it, but so are our union bosses. In fact, I'd say the IAM is one big corporate entity. Show me the difference?

At any rate, who are you to say that the union bosses know what is best for the employees and their families? Has AA's proposed contract been turned down by the majority? I suspect that the NMB, the company, and the VAST majority of employees think that a vote on the final offer is the best scientific method in determining if the offer is fair, as opposed to a few blowhard union bosses more concerned about the critical IAM Pension.

regards,

 

[B737 driver]

But you recommended the United contract. Isn't that unbelievable that you would do that when it wiped out UA health care for thousands and eliminated the part time cap and puts a drop dead date on another 2 dozen stations and express jobs?
Isn't that a fair question I asked? That's why I call you a phony, because your actions have never ever backed up what you say.

That said, isn't the contract that Parker offered a industry leading Total contract when compared to Delta and United? If not, Parker plainly said he would sign the United contract all over again for you. You recommended it once, why wouldn't you recommend it again?

Members wanna know

Would you guys vote in the United contract plus 3% in pay, or not if the offered it?

 

[WeAAsles]

You could quit the forum. That might be a little bit of peace. Just sayin'!

I’ll likely drop off after we get JCBA’s and go back to reading books. Can’t get much more peaceful than reading books.

I am a TWU member and I still don't remember agreeing to said "partnership"

Did you remember signing that first dues check off card that you agreed to sign making you a TWU member and giving them the authority to make certain decisions on your behalf?

You honestly could have refused to sign that card (So could I have) but you know where we both would not be working today.

Again when I signed that card I gave up certain “individual” rights. Something to this day I have no problem accepting.

 

[Tim Nelson]

And will anyone who has access to Peterson please tell him that the Vietnam War is over? Dude is like Buzz Lightyear and in a different world. He keeps on harping about preparing for a strike. OMG. The TWU talks strike, and the IAM says "No Way". This is the problem of having 2 unions. They constantly contradict themselves. Sheesh!

 

[MetalMover]

And will anyone who has access to Peterson please tell him that the Vietnam War is over? Dude is like Buzz Lightyear and in a different world. He keeps on harping about preparing for a strike. OMG. The TWU talks strike, and the IAM says "No Way". This is the problem of having 2 unions. They constantly contradict themselves. Sheesh!

Gotta love the tough strike talk where the membership walks and the international still get paid.

 

[MetalMover]

I’ll likely drop off after we get JCBA’s and go back to reading books. Can’t get much more peaceful than reading books.



Did you remember signing that first dues check off card that you agreed to sign making you a TWU member and giving them the authority to make certain decisions on your behalf?

You honestly could have refused to sign that card (So could I have) but you know where we both would not be working today.

Again when I signed that card I gave up certain “individual” rights. Something to this day I have no problem accepting.

I know your answer, but we were told we would have a vote on the association. That alone has left many of us pissed off beyond comprehension.

 

[WeAAsles]

I know your answer, but we were told we would have a vote on the association. That alone has left many of us pissed off beyond comprehension.

Quite understandable. I just chose not to obsess over things beyond my control.

 

[WeAAsles]

Only thing I remember from 33 yrs ago was the part about "paying union dues is a condition of employment" and I accept that.

But there probably was a "We can do that, Brother" somewhere in the fine print. But I don't recall.

There’s always a “? reserves the right” written somewhere.