Alpa

[Bigsky]

How many jobs has ALPA saved in recent memory? How many profitable ALPA carriers are there? How many ALPA airlines are hiring?

ALPA is the leading opponent against cabotage. Without their efforts of the past, you would likely see Mexicana flying US domestic routes out of LAX, Air Canada flying US domestic routes out of DTW, ORD and MSP and every non US airline with a little cash flying US domestic routes out of Jetblue's JFK. A benefit to all US carriers. Jobs saved.

Also there is scope language found in most contracts which without it you would see Airlink or Express on every airplane smaller than a B767.

Airline Business 101. The biz is very cyclical and you might actually see a day when B6 is a bit overstaffed. Nice to have a little protection in the form of recall rights and system seniority.

Are the guys on furlough left high and dry? NO. ALPA worked very hard at NW for these furloughed pilots to cover their health insurance(which isn't cheap), give the pilots temp positions at Airlink, and make sure they retained pass benefits. ALPA also did a fine job of finding flying positions for many of the furloughed guys and gals who weren't really interested in Ailrink.

Like I said, it might not be for everyone but give credit where credit is due.

cheers

bigsky

 

[SoldWholeSale]

What did placing those pilots at Airlink do to the Airlink pilots?

Scope..... Was this country not founded on free enterprise? What right has one group have to limit the work and growth of another to guarantee their own if they are lesser performing or more costly? Are Airlink or express carriers somehow bonafide ATP's than say a NWA pilot? This issue is the crux of the RJ Defence Coalition. They will probably win their case at some time in the next year which will make scope illegal.

Cabotage... I agree, a good thing to prevent. However is slowly being eroded and will along with scope not last another five years.


My hats off to the Northwest MEC and ALPA pilot group if they have done well. However, as I stated previously the USAirways pilots have done nothing but find ALPA's hand up their skirt for many years. There are no insurance or pass benne's. There were jobs artificially created, but only so the mainline MEC would have a source of give backs other than their own contract.

Best to all...

 

[Bigsky]

What did placing those pilots at Airlink do to the Airlink pilots?

Since the Airlink pilots are also ALPA, seniority rules. The NW pilots were given FO positions at AIrlink. Not the best deal going, but it is a temp position and it beats being a greeter a Wal Mart and it would be unfair to bump Airlink pilots out of the left seat.

Scope....We will have to agree to disagree. Without scope language you would see Airlink pilots flying all of NW A320/A319's. The DC-9s would have been Airlink years ago. When you start giving away entire fleets, you give away jobs and job security.

It is also important to remember that ALPA is only as stong as it's local membership.

cheers

bigsky

 

[SoldWholeSale]

Agreed..... I admit to being devils advocate on scope. I can see both sides of the argument as I have been both an express and a mainline pilot.

The USAir pilots were placed at ALPA carriers in the J4J program and given left seats... Like I said, ALPA isn't popular with any of the furloughed USAir pilots and even less so with most of the express carriers.

Glad the guys at NWA have got it together. Sounds like they will do well with USAir disappears. To my origional point, the former USAir pilots at JetBlue will most likely never be a force to bring ALPA to the property.

 

[emily]

Emily..... You need to get some sun in hopes of jumpstarting your thought process and thank your lucky stars for affirmitive action. Your posts show two things; ignorance and the fact that you have never been on the home depot end of furlough.

SOLDWHOLESALE,

It appears you've been out in the sun too long and it fried your brain.I've got news for you. ALPA did not ruin your career at U.S. Air. Speaking of news, you must not keep up with it. Ever heard of 9/11, recession, Sars, the internet, teleconferencing,LCC's......... Since you brought up ignorance let's talk about your own. ALPA has been in business since 1931. Tell me you're not so ignorant to believe that the piloting profession is not much, much the better for it. Obviously it can't solve all problems. And as Bigsky said it's only as good as the local members and leaders. I'm in my third decade of membership and I've seen the good and the bad. But to malign the entire organization for your perception of failure by the U.S. Air MEC is misguided. It's akin to bashing the entire Catholic church for the actions of less than 1% of its ' priests. I'm truly sorry for the current state of affairs at U.S. Airways. It sux! But it's not ALPA's fault. By blaming it on ALPA you are exposing your.......well.......ignorance.

 

[ITRADE]

I;ve actually had the chance to talk to a JetBlue co-pilot recently, as well as having heard lots of comments on these boards. By and large, they all sound rather happy with their lot.

So, if its ain't broke, why tinker with it?

 

[SoldWholeSale]

Emily,

Yes, ALPA has been a huge success in the safety side of things. No it didn't kill me to say that. However back then ALPA wasn't a business, a cash producing, profitable enterprise.

Three decades...... Thats really nice and also long enough to place you soundly out of harms way and out of touch with the majority of ALPA members. How about the pilots at CCAir, Mesa, Eagle, PSA, PDT, ALG, MAA, Comair, ASA, Mesaba, and several others who now make up more than half of ALPA membership whose careers and earning potential are limited by ALPA? How about those whose jobs were negotiated away for the preservation of pay for those who have "three decades" of seniority?

ALPA represents the inablilty of the carriers afflicted to change in time with the times. The very reason Frontier, JetBlue, Airtran and others are doing so very well. You are correct when you say times have changed, 100% dead on. ALPA and its membership however have not changed and the carriers whose pilots are represented are unable to change with times. You made my case for me. ALPA like the beautiful 727's and 707's which revolutionized air travel are out dated and now more drag than thrust in the system which needs to be stream lines and efficient due to Sars, 9/11, teleconferencing, high fuel prices, ect....

 

[jB-Rocks]

I am a twice furloughed pilot from US Airways.

I will tell you this " I will never vote for ALPA to represent me at jetBlue. And I can honestly say..that my fellow friends that are here at jetblue will not vote for them either!

 

[JetClipper]

Bigsky:

I have to say that I'm very disappointed with you for starting this thread. Up until now, I found your posts thoughtful and well written, but I think your brain has gone to mush.

I’m afraid you’re one of those naïve legacy carrier employees who think that once the low-cost airlines have unions running all over their properties, their costs will go up and everything will be hunky-dory in your world. I have a cure for that; next time you’re on a layover, lock yourself into your hotel room, close your eyes and sit on the bed cross-legged, and repeat “it’s not going to happen†over and over again.

JetBlue’s employees are a smart bunch; certainly smart enough to see the “benefits†ALPA membership brought AA, UA, & US pilots (not to mention US’ regional airline pilots, a la Allegheny). That notwithstanding, I think they understand how JetBlue’s corporate culture contributes mightily to the airline’s success, and therefore will not want to tamper with it. Even if, God Forbid, JetBlue’s pilots’ flight bags started sporting ALPA stickers, I can promise you it wouldn’t happen in time to save you from taking (possibly yet another) pay cut, if not losing your job altogether.

Does it stink to be forced to give-up wages and benefits gained through years of tough negotiating? Absolutely! Unfortunately, that’s the card we’ve been dealt. If we want long-term job stability, we are going to have to be willing to sacrifice for it.

 

[latreal]

NOTE:
AA is not an ALPA carrier...and according to recent press....will be the first legacy airline to turn a profit.

Coincidence????
HMMMMM....could be B)

 

[Bigsky]

jetclipper

I originally started this post to see if some of the rumors were true regarding ALPA or some other union talking with the B6 pilots. Apparently, the rumor turned out to be just that.

I would also like to add that I am not the least bit concerned about my pay/benefits being reduced to match the B6 pilots as B6 does not compete directly nor do I see them in the future competing with NW.

A little tip...Try posting without being quite so insulting next time and you'll find your posts have more merit.

cheers

bigsky

 

[ITRADE]

jetclipper

I originally started this post to see if some of the rumors were true regarding ALPA or some other union talking with the B6 pilots. Apparently, the rumor turned out to be just that.

Interesting take. You say that you were simply investigating a rumor, but you went from asking a question, to clearly lobbying:

Consider also if Jetblue someday merged with an ALPA carrier. Instead of being stapled to the bottom of a list you would have the protection of at least retaining your current position and date of hire seniority.

Wow. If you were just wondering, why with the inference of a staple job???

All the Jetblue pilots should be quite happy with their fast growing airline. It's time for work rules and compensation that you deserve. Step up to the plate and join the ALPA professionals.

This is a pretty blatant lobbying job.

Sorry, your "post to see if some of the rumors were true" does not past muster. Nor does the comment "regarding ALPA or some other union" given that you intone that the folks should "step up to the plate and join the ALPA professionals."

 

[trolly dolly]

VIRGIN USA

 

[audio-nut]

ALPA is the leading opponent against cabotage. Without their efforts of the past, you would likely see Mexicana flying US domestic routes out of LAX, Air Canada flying US domestic routes out of DTW, ORD and MSP and every non US airline with a little cash flying US domestic routes out of Jetblue's JFK. A benefit to all US carriers. Jobs saved.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Either you're brainwashed or stupid. Congress will NEVER allow cabotage. NEVER!

Your union is taking you for a ride by letting you think so.

Thanks for the laugh! 😀

 

[Bear96]

Congress will NEVER allow cabotage. NEVER!

Wow.

Someone sure has their head in the sand.

Maybe you missed the news today that Mexican trucks are about to start transporting their loads via US highways.

One thing at a time. It's the wave of the future.

Cabotage is not that far off.