Update on ALPA Executive Council Meeting

[Bud8EE]

I'm confused.

First the threat is, "If we don't get our way, we'll keep East and West separate!"

Now East and West are somehow inexorably tied together?

Could you please make up your mind?

I can see the thin veneer of intellectual union knowledge you tried to wear to appear as unbiased was just a facade. As you can see, this isn't going to blow over.

 

[ableoneable]

I think it is interesting that project Zanzabar has reared its head again.

Did you East guys read any of the material that either side presented?

Read the whole paragraph. To paraphrase, Kirby stated that AWA had put together a bankruptcy plan known internally as zanzabar, but he did not forsee its use. He stated that AWA's costs were already low and that with the exception of a few lease rates Bk would have few advangates. He goes on to state in the same sentence that had the merger not been consumated USAir would have most certainly liquidated.

Your merger commitee keeps leaving the second part of his sentence off of their communications.

 

[luvthe9]

[quot

It will be an interesting year or so. But believe me, there's not a single West pilot who is concerned. PHL will make a great hub for SWA to launch their international service and I'm sure AMR will be very happy with their new shuttle. Enjoy working in flooring at Home Depot.
[/quote]
If I were a West pilot I would be vey worried, right now most of us don't care anymore , it's beyond repair. We on the East only have a fews years left and view this place as a total loss, unlike you guys with maybe 20 to 25, you might want to get a few applications out, Skybus and Virgin both come to mind just in case.

 

[CaptainZitface]

We on the East only have a fews years left and view this place as a total loss, unlike you guys with maybe 20 to 25, you might want to get a few applications out, Skybus and Virgin both come to mind just in case.

Then why don't you quit? You can start your job as a greeter at Wal-mart a couple of years early.......you know how important seniority is!

 

[luvthe9]

🙂

Then why don't you quit? You can start your job as a greeter at Wal-mart a couple of years early.......you know how important seniority is!

First off I'm not a quitter, I'll watch this place go down slowly knowing not one thing was my fault as will you, I've tried by best for the last 28 yrs or so. Again not much left here, I don't care for Wal-mart but would love to work at Lowe's see you there!!

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

We're shaking in our boots. I hope you guys do fight this for the next 3, 4, 5, hell 10 years. It will certainly be entertaining to watch. When all is said and done you guys will be morally and financially bankrupt. All for what? Oh, that 16 YOS that got you no more than a FO position at the bottom of your old list (and new). You guys screwed yourselves by sticking it out with such a POS airline. Face it, the problem is in the mirror, and you guys had no better place to go except down with the ship.

The only "terrible wrong" in this whole mess is our merger/acquisition with/of such a dysfunctional POS airline called US Airways, aka the "Titanic." I would trade you "the list" for never merging in the first place any day. If you can find away to make it happen, I'll be the first one in your corner.

I have always heard USA320Pilot was a Company man. Anyone ever give it some thought that he might be playing managements hand here. What a dream come true for Parker and Kirby, to keep LOA 93 for years to come. Perfect play USA320Pilot! Or, probably more to the point, USA320Pilot should just tell the old guys in the left seat to hurry up and get the hell outta here so he can get his. After all, that is what this is all about right, captain positions? What are you going to do when they change age 60? Threaten the government? Won't that be a "travesty" and disservice to all of your FOs who have dedicated their career to US? I think you all should march on Capital Hill. LOL, you guys are a piece of work.

Cheers,

CC

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

The fact is AWA went after US not the other way around dipsh!t. AWA had a contingency plan for filing Chpt 11, much like the rest of the airline industry with the exception of SWA. The keyword here is contingency. The reasons are obvious, but there was also going to be a change in the BK laws that following October, so if there was going to be a filing it would have been before that date. The problem was not cash at the time since AWA was making money every quarter before and after the merge, albeit small (30M) profits. The problem was with cash flow and the ability to make the ATSB loan payments. AWA would have renegotiated terms of the loans to avoid BK at all cost, but you never know - ergo Zanzibar or whatever name Kirby likes to tell you.

Now, to your wishful thinking:

Thus, when would now be a good time for the US Airways and AWA pilots negotiate a fence agreement, shared growth, and scope protections?

I really believe our MC would have done that had your MC not been directed otherwise. Now the answer is not only NO, but HELL NO!!!!! The East reaction, attacks, and the disrespect shown have unified our group too, you know. It is a matter of principle now. If you guys think you can strong arm us into capitulating to your demands, well you are a much bigger moron than I give you credit for.

Cheers,

CC

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

$16,500 after taxes. Wow, that's worth the wait for sure...lol. You have got to be the absolute worst at giving advice to your pilot group.

A new contract for east will most likely result in 20% pay increases. What does that amount to per year? BTW, you will not have to worry about a joint contract because the west will never vote for a contract that gives the east a 20% raise off of the backs of west pilots, who only get a 3% raise. So there, you have LOA 93 and your attrition for the forseebale future.

Cheers,

CC


Is there any way we young punks can get your old a$$ to leave sooner?

I already have my resume ready for another career path. The thing is, luvthe9, I am young enough to start over somewhere. Whereas, your a$$ has been tied to your POS airline and you have nowhere else to go. I hope that pension from PBGC works for you because I know you haven't been making any other real money over the last decade.

 

[awausairtech]

I think it is interesting that project Zanzabar has reared its head again.

Did you East guys read any of the material that either side presented?

Read the whole paragraph. To paraphrase, Kirby stated that AWA had put together a bankruptcy plan known internally as zanzabar, but he did not forsee its use. He stated that AWA's costs were already low and that with the exception of a few lease rates Bk would have few advangates. He goes on to state in the same sentence that had the merger not been consumated USAir would have most certainly liquidated.

Your merger commitee keeps leaving the second part of his sentence off of their communications.

I would like to read the whole thing, Not that I disbelieve you but some on here have to have the facts. Can you post a link or post the memo? I at no time could foresee BK in AWA's future till we merged with USAIR INC. WE had money in the bank 500 million (I know this is not a lot of money to big USAIR but to Little AWA it was)and DP and the boys were getting big bonuses each quarter and new aircraft on the way and no company cut backs, The signs of BK was not showing at this time. My best bet on this whole thing it was done this way so when the merger was done the company was going to use it to hold down WAGES.(The Change Of Control) Common Sense look at all the Stalls it has got the company and if they beat the C.O.C they save 100 million in wages. Some times it hard to see the forest for the trees. 🙄 This is just my PPOV, Have a good one E/W. B)

 

[luvn737s]

The east never gets tired of salting the earth do they? Then they blame everyone else for crop failure.

Parker answers to the people who put money into this airline and those same people could care less about any "travesties". But when folks start costing the investors money by playing hookey and causing flight cancellations, they are going to send a message to Parker to nip that in the bud, not reward them. I would bet Parker is busy recruiting a COO who will rule over the east with an iron fist. I am sure there are plenty of folks at NWA who could show Parker how to deal with the likes of the east. If he's not, his successor will.

 

[JAMAKE1]

Oh yeah - let us just reflect - AWA flight attendants ATTEMPTED to change the AFA by-laws from DOH to integration. It was voted down by a vast majority. NO ONE on the East could have cared less that this happened. All that was heard was "IT IS AFA MERGER POLICY". Now - fast forward and East wants to change the ALPA BY LAWS MERGER POLICY and everyone is screaming that it is unfair. Talk about a double standard.

Sweetheart, you're comparing apples to oranges. Let me tell you something: You don't know what you're talking about! The bylaws are there because for flight attendants, it is the most equitable way to integrate seniority. You people in the West are forgetting that you're inheriting additional flying (not just the senior babes). And believe me, the former PSA gals aren't about to trade Athens for Albuquerque, nor Rome for Reno...so just chill!

 

[AAA#6]

Don't forget the E170 jets U had to sell DURING the merger to stave off CH7. Remember the MidAtlantic jets going to Republic. Selling of assets on the cheap sure sounds dire to me.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

US Airways ALPA MEC Chairman’s Message - May 21, 2007



USA320Pilot

Wow the first long post of yours I ever had the stomach to read entirely.

It says it all just like we been saying all along. You have NO leg to stand on and the award is BINDING and the National will NOT overturn the award.

All the points made by your MEC were moot points. They say the AWA MEC and their lawyer had nothing much to say...well they are right East have no case so West has nothing to argue. West wants the award to stand and it will. You East scums are the ones that are whining and shakening in your boots. As usual you can't take the truth and the truth of the matter is an ALPA Pilot with 1 day and paying dues DOES has the same and equal rights to representation as a 30 year ALPA Pilot. Of course you think that is wrong LOL I guess you think representation should be based on DOH too....NOT GONNA HAPPEN that would be illegal.

p.s. I was howling when East said the West and their Lawyer had nothing (or little) to say but then said their(East)lawyer countered everything the West had said...So let me get this right the East countered all the Wests nothing. LOL

p.s again. Not that it matters because it is a moot point but if something is secret doesn't that mean er er ah it is secret? So the arbitrator erred in not searching for everybodies secrets? LOL oh my laughing so hard it hurts. Make it stop

 

[aquagreen73s]

All the points made by your MEC were moot points. They say the AWA MEC and their lawyer had nothing much to say...well they are right East have no case so West has nothing to argue. West wants the award to stand and it will.

Here's the recap from the West MC:

AWA MERGER COMMITTEE UPDATE

May 22, 2007



At 1300 yesterday, the ALPA Executive Council convened at the Herndon office in open session to hear a presentation as requested by the AAA MEC concerning the seniority integration Award. As we are certain you know, the AAA MEC asked the Executive Council to set aside the Award because, in their view, it was not “fair and equitableâ€￾ and did not comply with ALPA Merger Policy. Before the open meeting commenced, the Executive Council met in closed session with its attorneys for a briefing on ALPA’s legal responsibilities with regard to that Award.



Participants at the open session, in addition to the Executive Council and Captain John Prater, included the AWA MEC Officers, Merger Committee, and Communications Chairman, and the AAA ALPA MEC Officers, Merger Committee, and Communications Chairman, together with their respective Merger Counsel, Jeff Freund for the West, and Dan Katz for the East. In addition to the direct participants, there were around 40 Pilots from both the West and East in the meeting room and approximately 400 Pilots from the East who viewed the proceedings on closed-circuit, non-recorded telecast in conference rooms in ALPA’s offices.



Under the ground rules for the presentation, each MEC had a total of 30 minutes to present their positions followed by a 10 minute rebuttal period for each side. A question and answer period by the Executive Council members followed the presentations and National President Captain John Prater closed the session with a few brief remarks.



The AAA Merger Committee presented their views first. Their presentation summarized a 20 page pamphlet that they distributed to the Executive Council that afternoon. As soon as we have a copy of the presentation in electronic format, we will post it on the web site. Their assertions were that, for reasons identical to the arguments they made at the arbitration (and that the arbitration panel rejected), the Award did not adhere to the 5 Merger Policy tenets found in ALPA section 45. As a broad overview of their position, they asserted that the Award produced a major windfall for the West Pilots at the expense of the East Pilots.



We elected to have our attorney, Jeff Freund, express our views on this matter. Although allowed a 30 minute period, Jeff encapsulated our entire position in a highly articulate 15 minute presentation. Jeff summarized the 18 page brief we had submitted to the Executive Council members last Friday (a copy of which will be posted on the web site). Our presentation in that document and to the Executive Council was simple: the merits of this case have been considered exhaustively in 18 days of arbitration hearings that produced over 3,000 pages of transcript testimony through 20 witnesses and 14 volumes of exhibits. The arbitration panel was chaired by an experienced seniority integration arbitrator freely selected by both Merger Committees and included two pilot neutrals, each selected in accordance with Merger Policy. There were no procedural irregularities in the process and both sides were able to present all of the evidence each desired to present. Following the close of the hearing, the arbitration panel met for an additional 6 days of discussions and analysis, and rendered their Award on May 1, 2007. On the face of the Award, it is clear that the panel understood the facts, understood Merger Policy and applied that policy to the evidence presented. Jeff made clear that we had not come to the Executive Council to rehear the case or present additional testimony. Rather, under Merger Policy, the Executive Council can and should do only two things at this juncture; namely, present the Award to management and defend the Award against any effort by anyone to reject it. He reminded the Executive Council that there is no procedure under Merger Policy for ALPA to do anything else, that there is no precedent for it doing anything else and that, in fact, when other pilot groups have tried to undermine seniority integration awards or agreements in the past, ALPA has vigorously and successfully resisted those efforts.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

Here's the recap from the West MC:

AWA MERGER COMMITTEE UPDATE

Very Sweet