Alpa Obtains A Ta
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
michael707767
Senior
- Aug 21, 2002
- 332
- 0
Here are the highlights, according to my source.
-Pay cut = 18.25%
-DC plan contribution max 10%
-Pay cap adjustable to 95 hours
-Rolling cap for reserve pilots = 285 over 3 month period
-Deadhead is 50% P/NC
-Eliminate negative bank
-Fragmentation does not apply during ch 11 and 1 year after.
-Equity
-Profit sharing = 3.6% min.
-Min a/c - void during Ch 11 and out till 1 year after Ch 11 exit.
-Outstanding grievances - company agrees to discuss settlement.
-Training Relief
-No MDA displacement rights
-Expanded VLAs
-Eliminate domestic crew meals
-Limited ERIP for pilots 55 and older
-Sick bank max 60 hours
-Vacation - 15 or more years service = 21 days @ 3.45hr/day
-EMB 190s to MDA with a max of 60 a/c
PS. USA320pilot remember I told you when you guys caved on the E170 at MDA that they would get the 190????
-Pay cut = 18.25%
-DC plan contribution max 10%
-Pay cap adjustable to 95 hours
-Rolling cap for reserve pilots = 285 over 3 month period
-Deadhead is 50% P/NC
-Eliminate negative bank
-Fragmentation does not apply during ch 11 and 1 year after.
-Equity
-Profit sharing = 3.6% min.
-Min a/c - void during Ch 11 and out till 1 year after Ch 11 exit.
-Outstanding grievances - company agrees to discuss settlement.
-Training Relief
-No MDA displacement rights
-Expanded VLAs
-Eliminate domestic crew meals
-Limited ERIP for pilots 55 and older
-Sick bank max 60 hours
-Vacation - 15 or more years service = 21 days @ 3.45hr/day
-EMB 190s to MDA with a max of 60 a/c
PS. USA320pilot remember I told you when you guys caved on the E170 at MDA that they would get the 190????
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
Printed out the TA and went over it line-by-line. In a nutshell, it's a piece of garbage, which I have since used to line the cat box. Vote NO!
Does anyone really think that it was going to be a whole lot better? Honestly? This is probably the best deal ALPA will see. The later you get the more variables get thrown into the mix such as higher priced fuel and further revenue deterioration. Air Tran and JetBlue are both talking with CLT. IndyAir on Day 1 is supposedly running near 100% LF for the day CLT-IAD. Things are only going to get worse. As much as I hate to admit it, USA320 finally appears to have nailed this one when he said the ALPA financial advisors told the MEC each proposal would get worse, not better.
Come to think of it, why did ALPA spend dues money hiring outside financial advisors if they were not going to listen to them?
As for the 190 at MDA, it hurts the other groups more than ALPA. You'll still get to negoiate a payrate for it, while the other groups working the aircraft just get flat MDA pay. I don't really see that as a major issue, as I don't see the CRJ900 at PSA in the bullet points above (that would be a bigger issue for ALPA IMHO).
Come to think of it, why did ALPA spend dues money hiring outside financial advisors if they were not going to listen to them?
As for the 190 at MDA, it hurts the other groups more than ALPA. You'll still get to negoiate a payrate for it, while the other groups working the aircraft just get flat MDA pay. I don't really see that as a major issue, as I don't see the CRJ900 at PSA in the bullet points above (that would be a bigger issue for ALPA IMHO).
yeh vote no ...and wait for the judge to decide ....
by the way you know if the judge decides this deal you are about to vote away will be richer in comparison to what the judge will give you .
One thing is for sure..things will get worse before it gets any better
by the way you know if the judge decides this deal you are about to vote away will be richer in comparison to what the judge will give you .
One thing is for sure..things will get worse before it gets any better
Guys, you have been hosed, but there will perhaps be another day, so take the deal and hope for better times.
All one can hope for, is that this finally gives management the impetus to actually run an airline and start making some worthwhile changes, that will bring prosperity to you all.
Best of luck!
All one can hope for, is that this finally gives management the impetus to actually run an airline and start making some worthwhile changes, that will bring prosperity to you all.
Best of luck!
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
Folks, this "Tenative Agreement" -- TA for short (TA stands for Totally A$$inine) just totally trashed the contract. I've never seen a group so willingly offer up a contract to the management chainsaw. What a joke. I've talked to dozens of pilots tonight (all PIT) and none will vote for this garbage.
RUN...! THE SKY IS FALLLING, IT IS RAINING E190'S :wacko:
Ummm hello...
The E-190 will not be avail. until late fall of the coming year, and jetBlue has first dibs. And this agreement only calls for EMB-190's. not the EMB-195 (which is the 100 seater.
IF US Airways can get survive and depart BK by February-ish, that means that you are talking about a period of like three to four months that Airways could add E190's while below the current fleet limit.
At best, MDA was able to add four planes per month, so 3 x 4 = 12 Planes
12 planes... Not exactly a replacement for the 737 fleet, is it? They negotiated 60 EMB-190's max also, again, not a good replacement for the 737 fleet.
Calm down already.
I can tell how this is going to come across, that they are looking to add to the mainline fleet as well, thus the "back in a year out of BK" clause. IMO some pilots would vote for survival alone, but a majority would vote if there is growth.
A pay cut for a Captain, is still a pay raise to a First Officer that gets to finally upgrade (or return to the left seat). All they need is 50.1% to get a TA to pass. Ask the CWA if you do not believe me.
Ummm hello...
The E-190 will not be avail. until late fall of the coming year, and jetBlue has first dibs. And this agreement only calls for EMB-190's. not the EMB-195 (which is the 100 seater.
IF US Airways can get survive and depart BK by February-ish, that means that you are talking about a period of like three to four months that Airways could add E190's while below the current fleet limit.
At best, MDA was able to add four planes per month, so 3 x 4 = 12 Planes
12 planes... Not exactly a replacement for the 737 fleet, is it? They negotiated 60 EMB-190's max also, again, not a good replacement for the 737 fleet.
Calm down already.
I can tell how this is going to come across, that they are looking to add to the mainline fleet as well, thus the "back in a year out of BK" clause. IMO some pilots would vote for survival alone, but a majority would vote if there is growth.
A pay cut for a Captain, is still a pay raise to a First Officer that gets to finally upgrade (or return to the left seat). All they need is 50.1% to get a TA to pass. Ask the CWA if you do not believe me.
From Q2 2004 press release..
"Mainline cost per available seat mile remained the highest in the industry, at 11.18 cents.""
The 950 Mill from the employees gets the CASM to about 10 cents a mile... so how is this a successful buisness plan? the east coast will be owned by 7 cent CASM carriers. I must be missing something.... I suppose places like the caribean and europe yields will be higher, but for domestic US where U does most of its flying .. forget it.
"Mainline cost per available seat mile remained the highest in the industry, at 11.18 cents.""
The 950 Mill from the employees gets the CASM to about 10 cents a mile... so how is this a successful buisness plan? the east coast will be owned by 7 cent CASM carriers. I must be missing something.... I suppose places like the caribean and europe yields will be higher, but for domestic US where U does most of its flying .. forget it.
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
madders said:
It just kills me to no end how everyone knows how the judge will rule in this case, and yet after 2 major concessions from labor, and managment second dance into BK.
What pessimistic assertions. Please bring forward any case in the airline industry history where a judge ruled in a 1113 (e) motion and gave a company all they saught...
Please. I'll be waiting...
Maybe you have historical data to bring forward that our financial advisors don't have.
United asked for, and obtained 1113e relief in the form of a 13% pay cut imposed upon UAL IAM members.
It is not a "pick and choose", it is a motion made and then approved or denied. If you reference the Filing, all of those cases cited as precedents for this particular motion could also be considered relevent to this situation. What is being considered here falls under federal bankruptcy code, not the RLA... So it is not just "Airline Industry" specific.
- Banned
- #30
Rico, your info on an 1113e is not accurate.
The judge is free to modify any of the terms in 1113e. He can grant the company what they what or change it to what he sees fair.
In an 1113c he cannot modify. This information was provided to the IAM by Sharon Levine, Esq.
In the UAL case the company asked for 13% from the mechanic and related, the judge gave them a 14% cut to equal back to the same time frame as the rest of the employees.
The judge is free to modify any of the terms in 1113e. He can grant the company what they what or change it to what he sees fair.
In an 1113c he cannot modify. This information was provided to the IAM by Sharon Levine, Esq.
In the UAL case the company asked for 13% from the mechanic and related, the judge gave them a 14% cut to equal back to the same time frame as the rest of the employees.
