All unions must eventually support ALPA

[USFlyer]

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On 2/5/2003 6:54:58 PM diogenes wrote:

Post concessions, U's CASM's still exceed those of WN's, even though WN pays its' employees more than U pays theirs. How is this possible? What costs, other than labor, are driving U's CASM's so high?

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[/blockquote]

Remember, a lot of savings have yet to be realized. Give the financials a few months to "settle", and all of the savings in total should help quite a bit.

 

[Biffeman]

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On 2/5/2003 8:35:45 PM oldiebutgoody wrote:

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On 2/5/2003 7:44:01 PM Biffeman wrote:

Hey oldie, here is one from another message board:

Subject: Re: Payback-Karma
Date: 2/5/2003 4:36 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Spadulator


You're right , the pilots are scabs for what they did in '92. Worked to Rule' under their contract and FAA regulations. Nothing would have gotten off the ground. Instead they were brought onto the property via a special shuttle so they wouldn't have to cross the picket lines in my location, and helped clean the aircraft on many thru flights.

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[/blockquote]
Just because you probably wrote it there too doesn't make it right. The pilot union, at the time, had agreed to 50 million/year in concessions. The IAM wanted raises and MORE featherbedding, much of which they got and are paying for now. That's the truth. The F/A union NEVER struck or even recommended that members strike over this. They were in their own negotiations over a contract. I witnessed a couple of "misinformed" F/As try to leave an aircraft on an overnight in sympathy. When they were informed that they would have to leave their IDs, since they would be fired (since there was not a F/A legal job action) they relented and continued to work. The same would have happened to ANY pilot that participated in an illegal work action. Sympathy strikes ARE NOT legal job actions under the RLA. Period. YOU ARE WRONG IN ALL THAT YOU HAVE SAID. STOP TRYING TO INCITE ANYMOSITY AGAINST THE PILOTS. IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THAT IS YOUR GOAL. IF YOU HATE PILOTS, YOU'D BETTER FIND ANOTHER CAREER! Either you have a poor memory or are an outright liar. I know the truth, because I was there!
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First of all I did not write it, I take credit for my work, second of all if you knew anything about why we walked out you would not spew your garbage. We walked out on one paragraph, Article 2b, the scope of our work. We came back to work with a 3.5% paycut, paying more for insurance, and we lost 50% of line mechanics system wide. So better check your history, I was there and involved.

Feather bedding? Ha, what do you call 300+ laid off pilots drawing full pay? What to you call not agreeing to RJs and having all the majors eating away at US market share? Shall I go on, cause obviously you do not know what happened. What do you call a side deal to get paid for not working during the 1992 IAM Strike?

The flight attendants ie AFA did sanction a sympathy strike, why else did US Air go to court to seek an injuction to prevent it?

And I have several pilots at US who are my friends, so I dont hate pilots, I dislike the pilots who agreed to a side deal to stab fellow trade unionist in the back to line their own greedy wallets, Idislike pilots who cleaned airplanes during the 30 day cooling off period and the five day strike.

And why cant you answer where was ALPA in 1992 when ramp and customer service lost it all and had their pension terminated?

 

[Biffeman]

Oldie, prove your claims, I proved mine!

 

[Biffeman]

Thanks Bob, it is glad to know that someone else knows what is going on. All the support on this thread from various posters in enlightning.

Bob, you just call it like you see it!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

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On 2/5/2003 8:42:38 PM PineyBob wrote:

You GO Biffe!!!! You are dead right on this one! Nothing I could add. Let me know if you need backup LOL
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Nope, He's wrong. That's the last I'm saying on the issue.

 

[savyinvestor]

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On 2/5/2003 8:44:20 PM Biffeman wrote:

Thanks Bob, it is glad to know that someone else knows what is going on. All the support on this thread from various posters in enlightning.

Bob, you just call it like you see it!
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[/blockquote]
Way to go Biff! Savy

 

[oldiebutgoody]

[blockquote]
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On 2/5/2003 7:44:01 PM Biffeman wrote:

Hey oldie, here is one from another message board:

Subject: Re: Payback-Karma
Date: 2/5/2003 4:36 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Spadulator


You're right , the pilots are scabs for what they did in '92. Worked to Rule' under their contract and FAA regulations. Nothing would have gotten off the ground. Instead they were brought onto the property via a special shuttle so they wouldn't have to cross the picket lines in my location, and helped clean the aircraft on many thru flights.

----------------
[/blockquote]
Just because you probably wrote it there too doesn't make it right. The pilot union, at the time, had agreed to 50 million/year in concessions. The IAM wanted raises and MORE featherbedding, much of which they got and are paying for now. That's the truth. The F/A union NEVER struck or even recommended that members strike over this. They were in their own negotiations over a contract. I witnessed a couple of "misinformed" F/As try to leave an aircraft on an overnight in sympathy. When they were informed that they would have to leave their IDs, since they would be fired (since there was not a F/A legal job action) they relented and continued to work. The same would have happened to ANY pilot that participated in an illegal work action. Sympathy strikes ARE NOT legal job actions under the RLA. Period. YOU ARE WRONG IN ALL THAT YOU HAVE SAID. STOP TRYING TO INCITE ANYMOSITY AGAINST THE PILOTS. IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THAT IS YOUR GOAL. IF YOU HATE PILOTS, YOU'D BETTER FIND ANOTHER CAREER! Either you have a poor memory or are an outright liar. I know the truth, because I was there!

 

[diogenes]

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On 2/5/2003 7:57:28 PM USFlyer wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 2/5/2003 6:54:58 PM diogenes wrote:

Post concessions, U's CASM's still exceed those of WN's, even though WN pays its' employees more than U pays theirs. How is this possible? What costs, other than labor, are driving U's CASM's so high?

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[/blockquote]

Remember, a lot of savings have yet to be realized. Give the financials a few months to "settle", and all of the savings in total should help quite a bit.
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[/blockquote]
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USFlyer,

If my reading is correct, U CASM's, post BK, after all savings are realized, will still exceed WN's by a considerable margin.

 

[fadec]

Biffeman, you are absolutely right in why we walked in 1992, Article 2b. You also correctly stated what the flt attendants did for us and what the pilots did for themselves. The mechanic and related have not forgotten. It's been a few years and we've continued on in our jobs, but we never forgot. I don't hate pilots, I just don't respect them as a group.

 

[fatherabraham]

WOW[

Two full pages of this 1992 iam strike dribble. So let me get this strait....
everyone worked at usair except iam during THEIR strike and got paid. Right? Yet you envious pilot haters single them alone out as scabs. Huh? Seems to me in short order the iam could of ceased all operations and not just some aircraft types. Apparently 4 or 5 days was not long enough.

The other group capable of shutting it down is the pilots. My $ says they will not ask for help because they do not need it. Could it be that other groups would like to have that leverage and naively think the pilots should walk for their causes. Wake up now ,( it has been 10 very long years ) this is not utopia.

 

[USFlyer]

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On 2/5/2003 9:33:56 PM diogenes wrote:

If my reading is correct, U CASM's, post BK, after all savings are realized, will still exceed WN's by a considerable margin.
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[/blockquote]


What is the expected RASM? US has always had higher RASM than most carriers, even in the recent years.

 

[delldude]

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On 2/5/2003 4:17:15 PM pitguy wrote:

I remember numerous pilots driving by and giving the one finger salute to the guys on the picket line and several flight attendants and other waiving and honking in support of the picket line. There is and will always be distrust between the mechanics and the pilots. No use in arguing with him Biffe. I have an elderly grandmother who has memory trouble also.

--You can never (ever) change history. Even if you would like too.

--Just like Rambo said. "You drew first blood". (Now you must live with it forever.)
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[/blockquote]
FUNNY ONE DAY ON BREAK I WAS OUT BY THE DEICE PAD BY FAB/PIT AND WATCHED PLANES TAXI BY...HE HE HE SOME COPILOT FLIPPED ME OFF WHILE TAXI-ING....CRACKED ME UP...WAN ME HELP ON URE PENSION?

 

[delldude]

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:

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[/blockquote]
Hey Biffeman,
Pilots got paid, mainly because pilots worked.
pilots got paid because pilots were and are scabs!----------------
[/blockquote]

 

[delldude]

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On
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[/blockquote]
That's right. ALPA was NOT on strike.
THATS WHY THEY'RE CALLED SKY SCABS...
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[/blockquote]

 

[airfreight]

Biffeman is correct as usual.I remember '92-'94 quite well.The pilot group should be happy that their still flying,retire at $28,000.00 and for the most part will always make a excellent living.Unfortunately their self absorbed greed and ignorance will CHAPTER 7 U.WHAT A BUNCH OF BABIES!Good luck to everbody else,you will need it.