All unions must eventually support ALPA
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ONTHESTREET
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On 2/8/2003 12:42:12 PM tug_slug wrote:
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Sometimes there is more honor in death than in victory, i.e., the charge of the "light brigade."
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Its must be comforting to know so many lost their jobs just to preserve your honor.
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i believe the idea trying to be expressed is this, If U lets this happen every airline in the country will fall next. Before long there is no pension anywhere.
It could possibly spread well beyond the airline industry.
Just a thought.
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On 2/8/2003 12:42:12 PM tug_slug wrote:
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Sometimes there is more honor in death than in victory, i.e., the charge of the "light brigade."
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[/blockquote]
Its must be comforting to know so many lost their jobs just to preserve your honor.
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[/blockquote]
i believe the idea trying to be expressed is this, If U lets this happen every airline in the country will fall next. Before long there is no pension anywhere.
It could possibly spread well beyond the airline industry.
Just a thought.
R
retread
Guest
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On 2/5/2003 11:33:26 AM Biffeman wrote:
1992, ALPA take concessions and then all the non-union workers at U lose there vacation, sick time, OJI bank. 40% of the full time workers down graded to part-time, mass layoffs, pensions frozen, hours cut from 40 to 25 hours, lose family coverage when downgraded, forced to pay $300 a month for insurance, where was ALPA then?
During the cooling off period, pilots clean planes when Uility does not show up due to working short handed.
1992 Mechanic and Related Stirke, AFA honors picket line, judge orders them to work.
ALPA makes secret deal with company not to honor the picket line and all pilots will get paid regardless if they fly or not. US grounds all the F28s, F100s, DC-9s, and MD-80s, all pilots get paid. Some pilots even come in on their own time to clean airplanes and run parts.
Karma, ALPA brought this upon themselves, let them solve it themselves. I for one remember 1992.
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ALPA takes concessions and we should strike for you? So we are considered SCABS. So Biff if ALPA strikes are you going to be a SCAB. If we lose our
pension and the company comes after yours are you going to strike? If we dont support you then after we lose our pension are we again considered SCABS? We do not need any other group to support us so get over it. You did not need us in 92 either. Believe or not no other groups supported you either. Maybe a FA who was married to one of your guys brought you coffee. Yes we got paid, so what? I do not know about pilots cleaning airplanes, most likely some did. I bet they did a better job of it anyway. This is 2003 by the way. Dont worry your turn is next.
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On 2/5/2003 11:33:26 AM Biffeman wrote:
1992, ALPA take concessions and then all the non-union workers at U lose there vacation, sick time, OJI bank. 40% of the full time workers down graded to part-time, mass layoffs, pensions frozen, hours cut from 40 to 25 hours, lose family coverage when downgraded, forced to pay $300 a month for insurance, where was ALPA then?
During the cooling off period, pilots clean planes when Uility does not show up due to working short handed.
1992 Mechanic and Related Stirke, AFA honors picket line, judge orders them to work.
ALPA makes secret deal with company not to honor the picket line and all pilots will get paid regardless if they fly or not. US grounds all the F28s, F100s, DC-9s, and MD-80s, all pilots get paid. Some pilots even come in on their own time to clean airplanes and run parts.
Karma, ALPA brought this upon themselves, let them solve it themselves. I for one remember 1992.
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ALPA takes concessions and we should strike for you? So we are considered SCABS. So Biff if ALPA strikes are you going to be a SCAB. If we lose our
pension and the company comes after yours are you going to strike? If we dont support you then after we lose our pension are we again considered SCABS? We do not need any other group to support us so get over it. You did not need us in 92 either. Believe or not no other groups supported you either. Maybe a FA who was married to one of your guys brought you coffee. Yes we got paid, so what? I do not know about pilots cleaning airplanes, most likely some did. I bet they did a better job of it anyway. This is 2003 by the way. Dont worry your turn is next.
[blockquote]
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i believe the idea trying to be expressed is this, If U lets this happen every airline in the country will fall next. Before long there is no pension anywhere.
It could possibly spread well beyond the airline industry.
Just a thought.
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Onthestreet,
The people that are employed at US Air need to worry about what's happening right here, right now we cant concern ourselves with what's happening at the other airlines or the rest of the country for that matter.
Whether US Air takes advantage of this situation or not I can guarantee you this. United wont and neither will American. Employee pension's are a huge debt and if any company has a chance to rid themselves of it their going to do it.
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i believe the idea trying to be expressed is this, If U lets this happen every airline in the country will fall next. Before long there is no pension anywhere.
It could possibly spread well beyond the airline industry.
Just a thought.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Onthestreet,
The people that are employed at US Air need to worry about what's happening right here, right now we cant concern ourselves with what's happening at the other airlines or the rest of the country for that matter.
Whether US Air takes advantage of this situation or not I can guarantee you this. United wont and neither will American. Employee pension's are a huge debt and if any company has a chance to rid themselves of it their going to do it.
A320 Driver
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On 2/8/2003 7
16 PM pitguy wrote:
Some say Biffe would not be a scab if he crossed the pilot's picket line since ALPA can not be a union when they crossed the IAM's line ten years ago. (Which I am told is not the first line ALPA has crossed.)
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Who's right? Who's wrong? Who cares?
A320 Driver
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On 2/8/2003 7
16 PM pitguy wrote: Some say Biffe would not be a scab if he crossed the pilot's picket line since ALPA can not be a union when they crossed the IAM's line ten years ago. (Which I am told is not the first line ALPA has crossed.)
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Who's right? Who's wrong? Who cares?
A320 Driver
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So Biff if ALPA strikes are you going to be a SCAB.
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If the pilots go out on strike I wouldn't worry so much about being called a scab Id be more concerned about being called UNEMPLOYED!
So Biff if ALPA strikes are you going to be a SCAB.
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If the pilots go out on strike I wouldn't worry so much about being called a scab Id be more concerned about being called UNEMPLOYED!
oldiebutgoody
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[blockquote]
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On 2/8/2003 716 PM pitguy wrote:
Some say Biffe would not be a scab if he crossed the pilot's picket line since ALPA can not be a union when they crossed the IAM's line ten years ago. (Which I am told is not the first line ALPA has crossed.)
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Maybe you're not aware of it, but sympathy strikes ARE ILLEGAL under the RLA. If ALPA had not crossed, they would be criminals and many would have been fired. ALPA doesn't expect any other union to strike on their behalf. If your union had a leg to stand on, they wouldn't expect it either.
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On 2/8/2003 7
16 PM pitguy wrote: Some say Biffe would not be a scab if he crossed the pilot's picket line since ALPA can not be a union when they crossed the IAM's line ten years ago. (Which I am told is not the first line ALPA has crossed.)
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[/blockquote]
Maybe you're not aware of it, but sympathy strikes ARE ILLEGAL under the RLA. If ALPA had not crossed, they would be criminals and many would have been fired. ALPA doesn't expect any other union to strike on their behalf. If your union had a leg to stand on, they wouldn't expect it either.
autofixer
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On 2/8/2003 9:07:40 PM pitguy wrote:
The IAM has language in their contract saying that we do not have to cross picket lines. This is standard "UNION" language.
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[/blockquote]You soon may get to test it.
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On 2/8/2003 9:07:40 PM pitguy wrote:
The IAM has language in their contract saying that we do not have to cross picket lines. This is standard "UNION" language.
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[/blockquote]You soon may get to test it.
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On 2/8/2003 7:32:38 PM oldiebutgoody wrote:
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On 2/8/2003 716 PM pitguy wrote:
Some say Biffe would not be a scab if he crossed the pilot's picket line since ALPA can not be a union when they crossed the IAM's line ten years ago. (Which I am told is not the first line ALPA has crossed.)
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[/blockquote]
Maybe you're not aware of it, but sympathy strikes ARE ILLEGAL under the RLA. If ALPA had not crossed, they would be criminals and many would have been fired. ALPA doesn't expect any other union to strike on their behalf. If your union had a leg to stand on, they wouldn't expect it either.
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TWU Local 553 vs. Eastern Airlines/
Frank Lorenzo: 1989
Flight attendants who were members of Transport Workers Union Local 553, headed by Mary Jane Barry, joined with members of the Air Line Pilots Association in refusing to cross picket lines of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. The IAM maintenance and ground crew members were on strike against Eastern Airlines and its notorious owner, Frank Lorenzo.
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On 2/8/2003 7:32:38 PM oldiebutgoody wrote:
[blockquote]
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On 2/8/2003 7
16 PM pitguy wrote: Some say Biffe would not be a scab if he crossed the pilot's picket line since ALPA can not be a union when they crossed the IAM's line ten years ago. (Which I am told is not the first line ALPA has crossed.)
----------------
[/blockquote]
Maybe you're not aware of it, but sympathy strikes ARE ILLEGAL under the RLA. If ALPA had not crossed, they would be criminals and many would have been fired. ALPA doesn't expect any other union to strike on their behalf. If your union had a leg to stand on, they wouldn't expect it either.
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[/blockquote]
TWU Local 553 vs. Eastern Airlines/
Frank Lorenzo: 1989
Flight attendants who were members of Transport Workers Union Local 553, headed by Mary Jane Barry, joined with members of the Air Line Pilots Association in refusing to cross picket lines of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. The IAM maintenance and ground crew members were on strike against Eastern Airlines and its notorious owner, Frank Lorenzo.
oldiebutgoody
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[/blockquote]
TWU Local 553 vs. Eastern Airlines/
Frank Lorenzo: 1989
Flight attendants who were members of Transport Workers Union Local 553, headed by Mary Jane Barry, joined with members of the Air Line Pilots Association in refusing to cross picket lines of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. The IAM maintenance and ground crew members were on strike against Eastern Airlines and its notorious owner, Frank Lorenzo.
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And they ALL got fired.
[/blockquote]
TWU Local 553 vs. Eastern Airlines/
Frank Lorenzo: 1989
Flight attendants who were members of Transport Workers Union Local 553, headed by Mary Jane Barry, joined with members of the Air Line Pilots Association in refusing to cross picket lines of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. The IAM maintenance and ground crew members were on strike against Eastern Airlines and its notorious owner, Frank Lorenzo.
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And they ALL got fired.
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On 2/9/2003 1:02:49 PM oldiebutgoody wrote:
PITbull,
Here is what I remember. There WERE some F/As that tried to walk (just like some pilots did), but it WAS NOT sanctioned by the AFA. The company went to court, which agreed that the F/As COULD NOT LEGALLY support the IAM strike. That's why they went back to work. To my knowledge there was no "court order", since there was no law allowing them to strike in the first place. Once it was pointed out that large numbers could be fired they went back, just like nothing had happened. That's what I remember, and I don't forget much!
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http://www.afausairways.org/IAMQA.html
What happened during the 1992 IAM strike?
In 1992, the US Airways AFA MEC voted to support the IAM strike. Our support included honoring the IAM's picket lines. When flight attendants struck in sympathy, the company went to court and argued that the AFA US Airways contract prohibited flight attendants from engaging in a sympathy strike. According to the company, the sympathy strike raised a contractual dispute that had to be decided in arbitration before the system board.
The court agreed, the parties were ordered to resolve the dispute in arbitration, and the flight attendants were ordered back to work pending arbitration. The IAM strike ended before the issue was arbitrated, but AFA decided to continue the arbitration, since the union would likely face a similar situation in the future.
The arbitrator ruled that the AFA US Airways contract does not prohibit the flight attendants from honoring the picket lines of other employee groups at US Airways. Therefore, flight attendants can legally honor the IAM picket lines without the threat of an injunction.
Again, the MEC will discuss the possibility of supporting the IAM's strike, and vote on that possibility once the strike's begun. If the MEC does vote to support the IAM's strike this time US Airways cannot stop us.
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On 2/9/2003 1:02:49 PM oldiebutgoody wrote:
PITbull,
Here is what I remember. There WERE some F/As that tried to walk (just like some pilots did), but it WAS NOT sanctioned by the AFA. The company went to court, which agreed that the F/As COULD NOT LEGALLY support the IAM strike. That's why they went back to work. To my knowledge there was no "court order", since there was no law allowing them to strike in the first place. Once it was pointed out that large numbers could be fired they went back, just like nothing had happened. That's what I remember, and I don't forget much!
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[/blockquote]
http://www.afausairways.org/IAMQA.html
What happened during the 1992 IAM strike?
In 1992, the US Airways AFA MEC voted to support the IAM strike. Our support included honoring the IAM's picket lines. When flight attendants struck in sympathy, the company went to court and argued that the AFA US Airways contract prohibited flight attendants from engaging in a sympathy strike. According to the company, the sympathy strike raised a contractual dispute that had to be decided in arbitration before the system board.
The court agreed, the parties were ordered to resolve the dispute in arbitration, and the flight attendants were ordered back to work pending arbitration. The IAM strike ended before the issue was arbitrated, but AFA decided to continue the arbitration, since the union would likely face a similar situation in the future.
The arbitrator ruled that the AFA US Airways contract does not prohibit the flight attendants from honoring the picket lines of other employee groups at US Airways. Therefore, flight attendants can legally honor the IAM picket lines without the threat of an injunction.
Again, the MEC will discuss the possibility of supporting the IAM's strike, and vote on that possibility once the strike's begun. If the MEC does vote to support the IAM's strike this time US Airways cannot stop us.
