Aircraft maint issues

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Again learn all you can about your enemy and you can defeat him.

You couldn't knock down a bop bag.

 

[Kev3188]

I knew you could dig some info up! Although that does not specify how many of this tech ops folks are AMTs. I think too often our maintenance numbers get inflated with non a&p support or office folks. That 9600 number gives us a starting point at least. Maybe Kev can chime in.

I believe for "just" AMTS, it's about 6500. There are also several hundred ASM's (our equivalent to your OSM), as well as Utility, Stores, etc.

 

[WeAAsles]

Never forget that under the TWU the AMT's includes Back Shops, Welders and Machinist...

Buck that’s not the TWU who’s placed those skilled professionals as part of your craft and class, that’s the US Department of Labor.

Never forget.

https://www.bls.gov/oes/2017/may/oes493011.htm

 

[WeAAsles]

Sorry for the late reply.

No, American has shunned the Parity with WN.
At one time a statement was made, but I cannot remember where I heard that WN was not an International Airline.
Maybe it was Bob Crandall? I guess by not having international routes the feeling was the did not have the overhead?
Doug Parker said Delta and United, There has to more to the story than just the number of Mechanics per Aircraft was much lower than AA?

Actually if you use the back arrows you’ll see that I was responding to Rogallo and we were talking about comparisons to IBT UPS who just signed that recent deal.

Pointless at the moment to want to compare yourself to SWA anyway since they haven’t signed any deal for you to compare to yet and they currently earn around $4.00 per hour less than you.

Plus all of that outsourcing of work.

 

[WeAAsles]

It seems like it’s been several weeks since they did the proving run for the ETOPS I’m wondering if faa has slowed that down some now

SWA had no problems gaining ETOPS Certification and is now in the process of selling travel tickets for service set to begin March 17.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnn.com/travel/amp/southwest-airlines-hawaii-fare-sale/index.html

 

[MikeS]

Exactly why I would prefer no union to this association that doesn’t seem to have a clear direction and too many different interests.

Every week we hear the same thing, AA wants to take all your jobs away and outsource everything. AA could have done that in 2012, and can do that in 2021, probably get a contract a week before the next financial calamity.

In the line stations we have a lot of mechanics who’s entire tool kit is a pair of lighted wands. It’s an unfortunate byproduct of industrial unions and weak management.

Just wait until we actually have something to vote on, the same old rhetoric is gonna come from the union. "This is a terrible contract, vote no, etc, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah.

 

[WeAAsles]

We were told at UA a couple months ago by the union that since AA hasnt gotten anything yet that the increases that Delta has got arent enough to allow us to get anything out of this reset LOA at this point.

But the union probably didnt include Deltas 14% profit sharing.

They can’t include Profit Sharing for any adjustments to wages since first that wasn’t agreed to in your contract and second it’s always a moving target depending on how well or poorly the airline does for the year financially.

And I believe currently on wages between the 3 Airlines you guys are at the top already?

 

[MikeS]

That's pretty close to what I figured. Per our last local union meeting the company wants to drive that number to under 7 AMT/ aircraft. They are proposing shedding 3100 jobs in maintenance.

How do you know this?? Because the ASS says so?? It seems to me a lot of people believe all the doom and gloom that's put out by the union. How can we believe anything good or bad until it's presented to us in some official form. To be clear, official form is not some union dude giving his opinion on You Tube.

 

[WeAAsles]

Odd to see talk of reductions when AA has A&P jobs listed on Linked In.

I “think” the change in language that AA is seeking gives them the ability to outsource more work if they choose. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re looking to do that right out of the gate if we were to agree?

I’m also not sure that these AMT schools are enticing and graduating as many students as they used to so it might be a good idea to get the jump on trying to bring what’s out there in?

Plus the Company is going to offer those buyouts eventually if not with the JCBA’s to bring their overall long term costs down and people need to be up and running before others can be let go.

 

[WeAAsles]

How do you know this?? Because the ASS says so?? It seems to me a lot of people believe all the doom and gloom that's put out by the union. How can we believe anything good or bad until it's presented to us in some official form. To be clear, official form is not some union dude giving his opinion on You Tube.

The Company has the ability through Jetnet/Workbrain to refute ANY false information the Association or anyone else for that matter puts out there and the Company has already shown they are more than willing to do so whenever they want.

Since it’s the Company who ultimately gives us work and provides us an income it would be the Company that should want to clarify their position once more.

Oh and Robert Isom has said in Roadshows that he wants to shrink work hasn’t he? Do you watch and pay attention to those Roadshow videos?

 

[MikeS]

The Company has the ability through Jetnet/Workbrain to refute ANY false information the Association or anyone else for that matter puts out there and the Company has already shown they are more than willing to do so whenever they want.

Since it’s the Company who ultimately gives us work and provides us an income it would be the Company that should want to clarify their position once more.

Oh and Robert Isom has said in Roadshows that he wants to shrink work hasn’t he? Do you watch and pay attention to those Roadshow videos?

I do and don't believe the company BS either, I get sick of both sides trying to convince me of their own agendas. Just want some facts without any influence from either side.

 

[WeAAsles]

I do and don't believe the company BS either, I get sick of both sides trying to convince me of their own agendas. Just want some facts without any influence from either side.

I agree. Sometimes I wish I was in the room myself to know exactly what’s going on even though I do mostly side with my Representatives.

I’m 100% sure that the Company wants to put trap door/ fine print language into our Contracts.

It’s natural that they would want that.

 

[WeAAsles]

Your numbers do get inflated when I try to get an exact gauge on AMT heads and the and Related Groups are bunched in looking at sites out there.

Did see something interesting on Airline Data Project about an hour ago. It was showing the average pay for Maintenance at UAL was around $50,000 where they showed AA at about $90,000?

My suspicion is they did a huge buyout and their costs went down? 4 years ago the average was at $80,000.

AA is going to drop the heck out of their long term labor expenses once their buyouts go into full effect.

 

[Vortilon]

Buck that’s not the TWU who’s placed those skilled professionals as part of your craft and class, that’s the US Department of Labor.

Never forget.

https://www.bls.gov/oes/2017/may/oes493011.htm

I'm sure there were no bribes or payoffs to make that happen.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm sure there were no bribes or payoffs to make that happen.

Trying to think in a reasonable sensible way but who in the US Government would accept a bribe to include people in your line of work that you feel shouldn’t be there?

Besides exactly what purpose does that serve? If you have your A&P don’t you get paid more for your licenses?

Others “Related” are paid a lot less per hour than you are right?

Again help me to understand precisely what purpose it serves really to have lumped “and related” into your designation?

Are “and related” actually “related” to the work you perform for the most part? Or in some way shape or form?