Aircraft maint issues

[WeAAsles]

And guess what contracts become amenable in 2018 at SWA weazzz, the ramp, and F/As. So that's why I say, if we vote this down whenever , we get a T/A, we will do a minimum of 18 months, before we vote again, probably the end of 2019. Not for scope, we kept that, but for money.

Your Ramp Group contract doesn’t become amendable till 2021. They signed their deals in 2016. But yes your FA Group is amendable this year.

http://www.twu555.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/TWU555CBA_Final201160407.pdf

I think both your Airline and mine would “like” to wrap this up for all the ground groups before they need to go in again with Pilots and FA’s.

 

[B737 driver]

Your Ramp Group contract doesn’t become amendable till 2021. They signed their deals in 2016. But yes your FA Group is amendable this year.

http://www.twu555.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/TWU555CBA_Final201160407.pdf

I think both your Airline and mine would “like” to wrap this up for all the ground groups before they need to go in again with Pilots and FA’s.

My bad no ramp, but F/A and customer service agents become amenable in 2018 The customer service agents are represented by the IAM, had their first meeting with the company on May 17 th. The F/A s are the TWU, so I guess we have our own Association at SWA! However the common denominator here, is these groups have successfully negotiated contracts with SWA, and passed them, and are working on their next ones, now or soon to be. Whereas our group is trying to finalize one for six years, and have a vote. That some people want to vote down, Go Figure!

 

[WeAAsles]

My bad no ramp, but F/A and customer service agents become amenable in 2018 The customer service agents are represented by the IAM, had their first meeting with the company on May 17 th. The F/A s are the TWU, so I guess we have our own Association at SWA! However the common denominator here, is these groups have successfully negotiated contracts with SWA, and passed them, and are working on their next ones, now or soon to be. Whereas our group is trying to finalize one for six years, and have a vote. That some people want to vote down, Go Figure!

Almost 6 years holding out from your Company ripping up your SCOPE and the Company finally agreed just to leave it alone as is with no growth.

To be honest driver I really wanted to see your Group hit a major home run so these supporters here could say to me “In Your Face”

I prefer to see the little guy win, not lose.

 

[B737 driver]

Almost 6 years holding out from your Company ripping up your SCOPE and the Company finally agreed just to leave it alone as is with no growth.

To be honest driver I really wanted to see your Group hit a major home run so these supporters here could say to me “In Your Face”

I prefer to see the little guy win, not lose.

I see it as a home run, to not lose scope, we actually gained some language, not a bad raise, almost all our back pay. This turned into a tit for tat! And lawsuits. We were never going to hit a home run because SWA management wants a certain size maintenance footprint, and it didn't matter what AMFA did. That's how it has been at our airline and that's how they make money; and that my friend is the absolute truth.

 

[Buck]

Ok 30 years ago tell me where your wages were supposed to fit on that spectrum and who were you comparing yourself to? 1988. Hell go back to that famous 1983 date instead. That would be 35 years ago.



So let me get this right because I’m not sure? Are you saying that if AMFA Represented Fleet at SWA they would purposefully go out of their way to screw them? Again if that’s what you’re saying it’s always the reason why no other Title Groups that are linked to you trust you AMFA salesman.



And again BUCK all I see right now is the TWU non stop talking about you guys and not a peep about Fleet to the public. You want to find me something where I’m wrong?



This schtick that you’re being controlled and held back has grown incredibly tireing after all these years.



Oh and BTW Buck TWU represents Fleet at SWA and they have around 10,000 Rampers while AMFA Represents about 2,500 Mechanics. So maybe TWU is just a dazzlingly better Union then?

Ok 30 years ago tell me where your wages were supposed to fit on that spectrum and who were you comparing yourself to? 1988. Hell go back to that famous 1983 date instead. That would be 35 years ago.


First I really don't understand why you get so mad when I make statement or ask a question?

So let me get this right because I’m not sure? Are you saying that if AMFA Represented Fleet at SWA they would purposefully go out of their way to screw them? Again if that’s what you’re saying it’s always the reason why no other Title Groups that are linked to you trust you AMFA salesman.

No I never said anything like that. I am saying that for my career here at American Airlines under the TWU and yes back to the 1983 contract, I arrived in 1984. Fleet has always outnumbered the Mechanics. It is the way TWU is structured and the Constitutional Convention has been ran by the NY Unions of Ground Locals like the Buses and Trains, there is only one thing I can do to change it.
Why would I try to sell to anyone except AMT's and those as you say, linked to an attempt to remove my class and craft from TWU influence. It was the NMB that made the determination of the Class and Craft, not I. Myself, I never talked to any "Linked" Title Groups, but others have. All I said was I want to be compensated equal to my peers in the Industry, but if the Fleet Service was running negotiations they had more influence and I no as a mechanic I was represented at negotiations, this time.

And again BUCK all I see right now is the TWU non stop talking about you guys and not a peep about Fleet to the public. You want to find me something where I’m wrong?

I don't believe I ever said you were right or wrong. To answer the question, perhaps Fleet is done and now the mechanics are just fight for SCOPE. The Association does not share information.

This schtick that you’re being controlled and held back has grown incredibly tireing after all these years.

I am sure you are tired of hearing about it., but the Mechanics were until recently on the bottom of our peers

Oh and BTW Buck TWU represents Fleet at SWA and they have around 10,000 Rampers while AMFA Represents about 2,500 Mechanics. So maybe TWU is just a dazzlingly better Union then?

With your Theory that more makes the Title Group better, your statement speaks loud and clear. and I or the Mechanics that read here know your true feelings. Why did your Title Group ratify contracts where the Mechanics were charged a penalty on Sick Time by the half day on pay for the first two days sick? You should have shot that one down.

 

[Buck]

Any reason why you’re ignoring this Buck?

View attachment 12917 View attachment 12916

No not ignoring, but I chatted with the AMFA National President yesterday so I am familar with what they are doing.
Oh, just in case you want to know we are friends and used to work together we have worked AMFA drives together
including going to visit Congress in Washington DC concerning Foreign Maintenance Overseas, in the 1990's Long
before the TWU aquired the idea to do something for the Mechanics.

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok 30 years ago tell me where your wages were supposed to fit on that spectrum and who were you comparing yourself to? 1988. Hell go back to that famous 1983 date instead. That would be 35 years ago.


First I really don't understand why you get so mad when I make statement or ask a question?

So let me get this right because I’m not sure? Are you saying that if AMFA Represented Fleet at SWA they would purposefully go out of their way to screw them? Again if that’s what you’re saying it’s always the reason why no other Title Groups that are linked to you trust you AMFA salesman.

No I never said anything like that. I am saying that for my career here at American Airlines under the TWU and yes back to the 1983 contract, I arrived in 1984. Fleet has always outnumbered the Mechanics. It is the way TWU is structured and the Constitutional Convention has been ran by the NY Unions of Ground Locals like the Buses and Trains, there is only one thing I can do to change it.
Why would I try to sell to anyone except AMT's and those as you say, linked to an attempt to remove my class and craft from TWU influence. It was the NMB that made the determination of the Class and Craft, not I. Myself, I never talked to any "Linked" Title Groups, but others have. All I said was I want to be compensated equal to my peers in the Industry, but if the Fleet Service was running negotiations they had more influence and I no as a mechanic I was represented at negotiations, this time.

And again BUCK all I see right now is the TWU non stop talking about you guys and not a peep about Fleet to the public. You want to find me something where I’m wrong?

I don't believe I ever said you were right or wrong. To answer the question, perhaps Fleet is done and now the mechanics are just fight for SCOPE. The Association does not share information.

This schtick that you’re being controlled and held back has grown incredibly tireing after all these years.

I am sure you are tired of hearing about it., but the Mechanics were until recently on the bottom of our peers

Oh and BTW Buck TWU represents Fleet at SWA and they have around 10,000 Rampers while AMFA Represents about 2,500 Mechanics. So maybe TWU is just a dazzlingly better Union then?

With your Theory that more makes the Title Group better, your statement speaks loud and clear. and I or the Mechanics that read here know your true feelings. Why did your Title Group ratify contracts where the Mechanics were charged a penalty on Sick Time by the half day on pay for the first two days sick? You should have shot that one down.

Instead of trying to cover everything to ad nauseam I’ll just brush on this for a change.

Not mad at all.

And you weren’t at the bottom in pay many times in your career. And you still do have more AMT (In House) Jobs than the rest of the Industry which has a price.

Why do you think the TWU is fighting so hard to keep it that way as Gary said “Long Term”?

 

[WeAAsles]

No not ignoring, but I chatted with the AMFA National President yesterday so I am familar with what they are doing.
Oh, just in case you want to know we are friends and used to work together we have worked AMFA drives together
including going to visit Congress in Washington DC concerning Foreign Maintenance Overseas, in the 1990's Long
before the TWU aquired the idea to do something for the Mechanics.

Then I won’t ask you publicly what they’re game plan is because unlike many other putzes on Forums I understand you don’t play Poker showing the Dealer the cards you’re holding.

I’ll simply say I wish them luck.

 

[Vortilon]

This is exactly why many do not understand why the pay for Fleet Service is higher than their Peers in the Industry.

That being said while, Mainenance now earns a comparable wage to their Peers at other airlines.
For 30+ years the AMT's specific compensation has always been on the low end of the spectrum.

If AMFA at SWA were represting the Fleet Service those numbers would change and we also have more aircraft.

LAA Fleet has 3,000 more people than the AMT's , therefore having more control over the AMT's.

That is true, every contract I've been through in my 32 years with the firm, AA's AMTs ended up somewhere in the middle or towards the bottom in pay and benefits when compared to their peers. The one exception being the AMFA inspired contract from 2001. In contrast, AA's FSCs were either at or near the top in pay and benefits when compared to their peers. Been saying it for years. We bring it up, and we get the old guilt trip BS about how AA employs more M&R people, and imply that we should except less to keep more employed. That would be fine if we could write off the difference as a charitable contribution.

 

[WeAAsles]

That is true, every contract I've been through in my 32 years with the firm, AA's AMTs ended up somewhere in the middle or towards the bottom in pay and benefits when compared to their peers. The one exception being the AMFA inspired contract from 2001. In contrast, AA's FSCs were either at or near the top in pay and benefits when compared to their peers. Been saying it for years. We bring it up, and we get the old guilt trip BS about how AA employs more M&R people, and imply that we should except less to keep more employed. That would be fine if we could write off the difference as a charitable contribution.

And what if Fleet Services head count numbers were comparable by percentage of Fleet size to both UAL and Delta.

Saying that you have more (in house) Headcount than other’s is not a guilt trip.

AMFA inspired the Contract in 2001 for AMT’s? Well even though it only lasted 2 years (Maybe that was the plan anyway) who inspired the Contract for Fleet Service then since that was also the best Contract we ever got too. Was that also AMFA inspired?

 

[Buck]

Then I won’t ask you publicly what they’re game plan is because unlike many other putzes on Forums I understand you don’t play Poker showing the Dealer the cards you’re holding.

I’ll simply say I wish them luck.

It's not a secret http://amfanational.org/?zone=/unionactive/view_article.cfm&HomeID=680017

 

[Buck]

Instead of trying to cover everything to ad nauseam I’ll just brush on this for a change.

Not mad at all.

And you weren’t at the bottom in pay many times in your career. And you still do have more AMT (In House) Jobs than the rest of the Industry which has a price.

Why do you think the TWU is fighting so hard to keep it that way as Gary said “Long Term”?

I am glad that you know everything.

Yes that is true on having more in house jobs, but of course you know why that is and it has nothing to do with the union per say.
The company gets a wonderful deal on Tulsa, They closed Kansas City (TWA) , AFW. hmmm, and the TWU isn't fighting anything hard. Perhaps the IAM.

 

[aintgotnotimefodat]

Almost 6 years holding out from your Company ripping up your SCOPE and the Company finally agreed just to leave it alone as is with no growth.

To be honest driver I really wanted to see your Group hit a major home run so these supporters here could say to me “In Your Face”
I prefer to see the little guy win, not lose.

 

[aintgotnotimefodat]

Lol Weaasle ...$&#@+& sorry fell off my chair laughing how u still believe in the TWU...too funny..AMFA did hit a home run...kept existing scope and retro...the TWU can't even put a bat on a ball ...lol..were holding out for scope... guarantee you no retro...and they're gonna cave in on our asks...medical, 7 wks Vaca...pay....amd more..the TWU can't even hold a candle to AMFAs prior contracts...let's be real...maybe as a fsc...not for us amts...

 

[swamt]

I’m thinking the move


Unfortately we spend a lot of money on guys who you wouldn’t keep working at your business. Rarely does a good guy require the union to spend tens of thousands of dollars on him.

I would rather spend that money on professional negotiators/lawyers to get the best contract possible.

All the schooling I have had is been geared towards aircraft maint. Just like our negotiation committee members. I know I can fix any aircraft just as I know I cannot negotiate a contract. Not to be insulting just pointing out that I think we should have professional negotiators. 4 or 5 professional negotiators, not twenty some union members some not even mechs that have gone to a twu sponsered negotiation seminar to negotiate a contract with the largest airline in the world. Doug and his team ran a regional LCC and successfully merged other airlines together making the New AA, at the same time pushing out the executives of the other airlines. We are not dealing with stupid people.

Not only is our negotiation team not professional negotiators, but they are too close to the negotiations. Meaning that if they get some BS proposal from AA they take that as a personal insult. Then it just turns bitter, kind of like what we are experiencing now.

Couldn't agree with you more, money well spent.

Outside Looking In: $34,000 does not sound like a lot of money for a Union Local?

34K isn't anything your right. This is a total different co. now and they want to fight over everything. So now it forces the unions hands to also fight. But at least we now see our union using their money to hire the professionals and experts to represent us at nego's as well as in a court of law. What he also forgets is the massive backlog our union had to take over from the previous union that was fired. It seems they were simply just putting all greivs and issues on the back burners and doing nothing to fight for them, or, they would simply make behind closed door deals to close out many of them. It does not matter what law firm AMFA would use, they would easily spend the same amount of cash as they have with current attorneys, this guy just has a hard on for AMFA and of course the Seham group for some reason. It takes money to successfully represent your members just ask our Pilots how much they spend on representation from their attorneys. Money well spent.